This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council building.

Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they don't want
to spend the money.

One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone and if
it freezes it splits off the stone.

Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:

http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6

Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to fix the
problem? Thanks.

john bently wrote:
> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council
> building.
> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they
> don't want to spend the money.
>
> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone
> and if it freezes it splits off the stone.
>
> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>
> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to
> fix the problem? Thanks.

-----------------------------------------

The fault diagnosis is correct.


The cheapish repair is (impossible):

Repair and cracks, splits and defective and then give the wall at least two
coats of clear silicone liquid so that water runs off the stonework rather
than being absorbed into it.


The proper is (rather expensive):

But after looking at your picture, then it would appear that silicone would
be useless here, and major restoration works are needed - no wonder the
council doesn't want to spend the cash on it (they really do know how to fix
it *AND* what it would cost).

Cash

"john bently" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hkq50j$74i$(E-Mail Removed)...
> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council building.
>
> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they don't
> want to spend the money.
>
> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone and
> if it freezes it splits off the stone.
>
> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>
> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to fix
> the problem? Thanks.

John,

There is no "cheapish" fix. Depending on the age of the building, it looks
as though it is either limestone that's been cut and ground to give it its
shape and look (expensive) or cast stone, a manufactured concrete product.
In either case, replacement of the damaged stone would be less expensive
using "cast stone".

I'm sure there are restoration company's in your part of the world that
would be eager to give you or the council a price proposal to complete the
restoration.

It is imperative that any restoration includes a means to get the water out
of the cavity between the veneer and the base wall as well as sealing the
surface from further water infiltration.

There is an old saying that "You can have it cheap, fast or good; you can
pick any two, three is not allowed or possible"

Tom

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:36:12 -0500, "Tom Cular" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
>"john bently" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:hkq50j$74i$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council building.
>>
>> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they don't
>> want to spend the money.
>>
>> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone and
>> if it freezes it splits off the stone.
>>
>> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>>
>> http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>>
>> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to fix
>> the problem? Thanks.
>
>John,
>
>There is no "cheapish" fix. Depending on the age of the building, it looks
>as though it is either limestone that's been cut and ground to give it its
>shape and look (expensive) or cast stone, a manufactured concrete product.
>In either case, replacement of the damaged stone would be less expensive
>using "cast stone".
>
> I'm sure there are restoration company's in your part of the world that
>would be eager to give you or the council a price proposal to complete the
>restoration.
>
> It is imperative that any restoration includes a means to get the water out
>of the cavity between the veneer and the base wall as well as sealing the
>surface from further water infiltration.
>
>There is an old saying that "You can have it cheap, fast or good; you can
>pick any two, three is not allowed or possible"
>
>Tom

When I looked at that picture there seemed to me to be a number of
serious design flaws with the building, specifically with the
methodology for removing/draining water from the roof. Those scuppers
(one right above a door way!) simply pour water down the side of the
building! Look at the stains on the section to the right of the
windows, left of the doorway-entry.

I personally would run like hell if someone asked me to do
repairs--until the basic flaws are resolved, I don't think any repairs
of the facade will be successful.

IMHO!

Concrete surface that stones are attached needs a thorough going over......
Yes, scuppers are flawed design....Need to extend out beyond wall.
Metal and or stainless steel pins for new facade.....Like dental work.
Mechanical attachment and mortar. (bone surgery)
Epoxy based mortar mix....

They dont want to spend money?

There is no fix with no money.
john

"john bently" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hkq50j$74i$(E-Mail Removed)...
> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council building.
>
> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they don't
> want to spend the money.
>
> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone and
> if it freezes it splits off the stone.
>
> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>
> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to fix
> the problem? Thanks.
>

On Feb 8, 4:59*pm, "john bently" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council building.
>
> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they don't want
> to spend the money.
>
> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone and if
> it freezes it splits off the stone.
>
> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>
> http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>
> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to fix the
> problem? *Thanks.

A cheapish solution is the problem, just by that small section I bet
no care has been taken on that building and the stone, and that wall
has been deteriorating for maybe 10-20 years, Cheap, yea stay cheap it
will eventualy all fall. The water is getting behind the stone, as in
roofing , tuckpointing is bad, I bet no maintenance has been done,
because Cheap is the objective you have. That could be a 10-50,000$
repair, because they were cheap.

On Feb 9, 8:38*am, PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:36:12 -0500, "Tom Cular" <tho...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >"john bently" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
> >
> >> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council building..
>
> >> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they don't
> >> want to spend the money.
>
> >> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone and
> >> if it freezes it splits off the stone.
>
> >> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>
> >>http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>
> >> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to fix
> >> the problem? *Thanks.
>
>
> >There is no "cheapish" fix. Depending on the age of the building, it looks
> >as though it is either limestone that's been cut and ground to give it its
> >shape and look (expensive) or cast stone, a manufactured concrete product.
> >In either case, replacement of the damaged stone would be less expensive
> >using "cast stone".
>
> > I'm sure there are restoration company's in your part of the world that
> >would be eager to give you or the council a price proposal to complete the
> >restoration.
>
> > It is imperative that any restoration includes a means to get the waterout
> >of the cavity between the veneer and the base wall as well as sealing the
> >surface from further water infiltration.
>
> >There is an old saying that "You can have it cheap, fast or good; you can
> >pick any two, three is not allowed or possible"
>
> When I looked at that picture there seemed to me to be a number of
> serious design flaws with the building, specifically with the
> methodology for removing/draining water from the roof. Those scuppers
> (one right above a door way!) simply pour water down the side of the
> building! Look at the stains on the section to the right of the
> windows, left of the doorway-entry.
>
> I personally would run like hell if someone asked me to do
> repairs--until the basic flaws are resolved, I don't think any repairs
> of the facade will be successful.
>
> IMHO!

I don't believe those are scuppers. Look again. I think they're
meant as some sort of crenallation. The upper wall is capped with a
piece of stone and the lower section of wall, which kind of looks like
a scupper, is also capped with that same stone, just in much more
deteriorated condition. The left hand low section doesn't have a dark
stain directly under it. The stain is well off to the side, and
wouldn't the spalled lower cap stone also be stained from the water
running over it?

The stain off to the left is from the water running down the pitched
flat stone cap on that gable end wall. Most likely the leak is caused
by poor detailing where the lower wall section cap stone meets the
decorative stone veneer. Whatever is done with the veneer and
lettering, those capstones should be pulled and reset after a proper
waterproofing job is done.

R

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:49:08 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Feb 9, 8:38*am, PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:36:12 -0500, "Tom Cular" <tho...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>> >"john bently" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>> >
>> >> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved council building.
>>
>> >> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they do, they don't
>> >> want to spend the money.
>>
>> >> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the facade stone and
>> >> if it freezes it splits off the stone.
>>
>> >> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>>
>> >>http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>>
>> >> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if possible to fix
>> >> the problem? *Thanks.
>>
>>
>> >There is no "cheapish" fix. Depending on the age of the building, it looks
>> >as though it is either limestone that's been cut and ground to give it its
>> >shape and look (expensive) or cast stone, a manufactured concrete product.
>> >In either case, replacement of the damaged stone would be less expensive
>> >using "cast stone".
>>
>> > I'm sure there are restoration company's in your part of the world that
>> >would be eager to give you or the council a price proposal to complete the
>> >restoration.
>>
>> > It is imperative that any restoration includes a means to get the water out
>> >of the cavity between the veneer and the base wall as well as sealing the
>> >surface from further water infiltration.
>>
>> >There is an old saying that "You can have it cheap, fast or good; you can
>> >pick any two, three is not allowed or possible"
>>
>> When I looked at that picture there seemed to me to be a number of
>> serious design flaws with the building, specifically with the
>> methodology for removing/draining water from the roof. Those scuppers
>> (one right above a door way!) simply pour water down the side of the
>> building! Look at the stains on the section to the right of the
>> windows, left of the doorway-entry.
>>
>> I personally would run like hell if someone asked me to do
>> repairs--until the basic flaws are resolved, I don't think any repairs
>> of the facade will be successful.
>>
>> IMHO!
>
>I don't believe those are scuppers. Look again. I think they're
>meant as some sort of crenallation. The upper wall is capped with a
>piece of stone and the lower section of wall, which kind of looks like
>a scupper, is also capped with that same stone, just in much more
>deteriorated condition. The left hand low section doesn't have a dark
>stain directly under it. The stain is well off to the side, and
>wouldn't the spalled lower cap stone also be stained from the water
>running over it?
>
>The stain off to the left is from the water running down the pitched
>flat stone cap on that gable end wall. Most likely the leak is caused
>by poor detailing where the lower wall section cap stone meets the
>decorative stone veneer. Whatever is done with the veneer and
>lettering, those capstones should be pulled and reset after a proper
>waterproofing job is done.
>
>R

I guess either a better set of images, or an inspection would be
necessary to figure out what's up there. Clearly, it seems, there is
excessive moisture flowing down the face of the building, and poor
construction techniques. The image I'd like to see would be from above
where the roof meets that front wall. I wonder if there is a gutter
behind the wall, and it is malfunctioning?

Peter, I agree. It looks like there may be a parapet type
situation. The stone has been saturated and frozen. I suspect
the moisture is getting into the stone from behind or above inside
the wall. The water and damage do not appear to be cascading down
the front face, or the rest of the wall would have similar
problems.

It is going to be expensive to do a high quality restoration of
the lettering and decorative work. I think it is limestone. Some
nice work can be done with epoxies, etc short of removing and
replacing.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
(E-Mail Removed)



"PeterD" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:49:08 -0800 (PST), RicodJour
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 9, 8:38 am, PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:36:12 -0500, "Tom Cular"
>>> <tho...@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >"john bently" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>>> >
>>> >> This stone facade is coming to pieces on a well loved
>>> >> council building.
>>>
>>> >> Either the council doesn't know how to fix it or if they
>>> >> do, they don't
>>> >> want to spend the money.
>>>
>>> >> One local I talked to said the water gets in behind the
>>> >> facade stone and
>>> >> if it freezes it splits off the stone.
>>>
>>> >> Here's a photo of it in the tinypic site:
>>>
>>> >>http://tinypic.com/r/o76k5d/6
>>>
>>> >> Would anyone have suggestions on a cheapish solution if
>>> >> possible to fix
>>> >> the problem? Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> >There is no "cheapish" fix. Depending on the age of the
>>> >building, it looks
>>> >as though it is either limestone that's been cut and ground
>>> >to give it its
>>> >shape and look (expensive) or cast stone, a manufactured
>>> >concrete product.
>>> >In either case, replacement of the damaged stone would be
>>> >less expensive
>>> >using "cast stone".
>>>
>>> > I'm sure there are restoration company's in your part of the
>>> > world that
>>> >would be eager to give you or the council a price proposal to
>>> >complete the
>>> >restoration.
>>>
>>> > It is imperative that any restoration includes a means to
>>> > get the water out
>>> >of the cavity between the veneer and the base wall as well as
>>> >sealing the
>>> >surface from further water infiltration.
>>>
>>> >There is an old saying that "You can have it cheap, fast or
>>> >good; you can
>>> >pick any two, three is not allowed or possible"
>>>
>>> When I looked at that picture there seemed to me to be a
>>> number of
>>> serious design flaws with the building, specifically with the
>>> methodology for removing/draining water from the roof. Those
>>> scuppers
>>> (one right above a door way!) simply pour water down the side
>>> of the
>>> building! Look at the stains on the section to the right of
>>> the
>>> windows, left of the doorway-entry.
>>>
>>> I personally would run like hell if someone asked me to do
>>> repairs--until the basic flaws are resolved, I don't think any
>>> repairs
>>> of the facade will be successful.
>>>
>>> IMHO!
>>
>>I don't believe those are scuppers. Look again. I think
>>they're
>>meant as some sort of crenallation. The upper wall is capped
>>with a
>>piece of stone and the lower section of wall, which kind of
>>looks like
>>a scupper, is also capped with that same stone, just in much
>>more
>>deteriorated condition. The left hand low section doesn't have
>>a dark
>>stain directly under it. The stain is well off to the side, and
>>wouldn't the spalled lower cap stone also be stained from the
>>water
>>running over it?
>>
>>The stain off to the left is from the water running down the
>>pitched
>>flat stone cap on that gable end wall. Most likely the leak is
>>caused
>>by poor detailing where the lower wall section cap stone meets
>>the
>>decorative stone veneer. Whatever is done with the veneer and
>>lettering, those capstones should be pulled and reset after a
>>proper
>>waterproofing job is done.
>>
>>R
>
> I guess either a better set of images, or an inspection would be
> necessary to figure out what's up there. Clearly, it seems,
> there is
> excessive moisture flowing down the face of the building, and
> poor
> construction techniques. The image I'd like to see would be from
> above
> where the roof meets that front wall. I wonder if there is a
> gutter
> behind the wall, and it is malfunctioning?