Suppose you had a roof that was a simple gable roof spanning 20 feet or
so. The rafters are 2x8, the ridge board is 2x10 and the collar
ties/ceiling joists are 2x6.

Now suppose there was a wall that went perp to the collar ties/ceiling
joists and you wanted to get rid of that wall. Obviously, the collar
ties/ceiling joists would sag.

I am thinking that the quickest, easiest, cheapest and fastest way to
beef up the collar ties/ceiling joists would be to fasten a 2x4, or some
such animal, connecting the collar ties/ceiling joists to the ridge board.

After all, it is only the weight of the collar ties/ceiling joists and
the sheetrock. Lets say that the rafters are on 24" centers and ceiling
joists are on 16" centers. I can't recall exactly, but that is probably
the worse case scenario. Best would be if both were 16" centers and well
nailed all around.

It beats the hell out of squirreling a long strongback up through an
access hole in the hallway.

--
I may not understand what you say, but I will defend to your death my
right to deny it.

"Jack" <Jack@the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in message
news:7NY0l.11367$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Suppose you had a roof that was a simple gable roof spanning 20 feet or
> so. The rafters are 2x8, the ridge board is 2x10 and the collar
> ties/ceiling joists are 2x6.
>
> Now suppose there was a wall that went perp to the collar ties/ceiling
> joists and you wanted to get rid of that wall. Obviously, the collar
> ties/ceiling joists would sag.
>
> I am thinking that the quickest, easiest, cheapest and fastest way to
> beef up the collar ties/ceiling joists would be to fasten a 2x4, or some
> such animal, connecting the collar ties/ceiling joists to the ridge
> board.
>
> After all, it is only the weight of the collar ties/ceiling joists and
> the sheetrock. Lets say that the rafters are on 24" centers and ceiling
> joists are on 16" centers. I can't recall exactly, but that is probably
> the worse case scenario. Best would be if both were 16" centers and well
> nailed all around.
>
> It beats the hell out of squirreling a long strongback up through an
> access hole in the hallway.

You should first learn the difference between a ceiling joists & collar
tie. They are not the same thing, or even close to being the same thing.

You should also have ceiling joists @ every rafter, not one @ 24" O.C. and
the other @ 16" O.C. This wouldn't pass inspection. How would you keep the
ceiling joist stable if not connected to the rafters?

Bart wrote:
> "Jack" <Jack@the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in message
> news:7NY0l.11367$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Suppose you had a roof that was a simple gable roof spanning 20 feet or
>> so. The rafters are 2x8, the ridge board is 2x10 and the collar
>> ties/ceiling joists are 2x6.
>>
>> Now suppose there was a wall that went perp to the collar ties/ceiling
>> joists and you wanted to get rid of that wall. Obviously, the collar
>> ties/ceiling joists would sag.
>>
>> I am thinking that the quickest, easiest, cheapest and fastest way to
>> beef up the collar ties/ceiling joists would be to fasten a 2x4, or some
>> such animal, connecting the collar ties/ceiling joists to the ridge
>> board.
>>
>> After all, it is only the weight of the collar ties/ceiling joists and
>> the sheetrock. Lets say that the rafters are on 24" centers and ceiling
>> joists are on 16" centers. I can't recall exactly, but that is probably
>> the worse case scenario. Best would be if both were 16" centers and well
>> nailed all around.
>>
>> It beats the hell out of squirreling a long strongback up through an
>> access hole in the hallway.
>
> You should first learn the difference between a ceiling joists & collar
> tie. They are not the same thing, or even close to being the same thing.
>
> You should also have ceiling joists @ every rafter, not one @ 24" O.C. and
> the other @ 16" O.C. This wouldn't pass inspection. How would you keep the
> ceiling joist stable if not connected to the rafters?


I can tell you haven't done or seen a whole lot of roof framing. It is
quite common for rafters to be on 24" centers and collar ties/ceiling
joists to be on 16" centers. The collar ties/ceiling joists tie the
opposite walls together whether they are nailed to rafters or not.

So aside from trying to play vocabulary police and exhibiting a lack of
familiarity with roof framing, do have any thoughts on the quarshun?

--

I may not understand what you say, but I will defend to your death my
right to deny it.

"TigerLuck" <TigerLuck@the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in message
news:3Na1l.10102$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I can tell you haven't done or seen a whole lot of roof framing. It is
> quite common for rafters to be on 24" centers and collar ties/ceiling
> joists to be on 16" centers. The collar ties/ceiling joists tie the
> opposite walls together whether they are nailed to rafters or not.
>
> So aside from trying to play vocabulary police and exhibiting a lack of
> familiarity with roof framing, do have any thoughts on the quarshun?

Collar ties are not the same of ceiling joists. It has nothing to do with
vocabulary.

Ummmmmm..... take your own advice and look up what each one is.

"TigerLuck" <TigerLuck@the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in message
news:3Na1l.10102$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I can tell you haven't done or seen a whole lot of roof framing. It is
> quite common for rafters to be on 24" centers and collar ties/ceiling
> joists to be on 16" centers. The collar ties/ceiling joists tie the
> opposite walls together whether they are nailed to rafters or not.
>
> So aside from trying to play vocabulary police and exhibiting a lack of
> familiarity with roof framing, do have any thoughts on the quarshun?

Oh yeah, as far as the 24 O.C. rafters and 16" O.C ceiling joists, you're
wrong.

On Dec 14, 12:28*pm, "Bart" <b...@invalid.org> wrote:
> "TigerLuck" <TigerLuck@the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3Na1l.10102$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> > I can tell you haven't done or seen a whole lot of roof framing. It is
> > quite common for rafters to be on 24" centers and collar ties/ceiling
> > joists to be on 16" centers. The collar ties/ceiling joists tie the
> > opposite walls together whether they are nailed to rafters or not.
>
> > So aside from trying to play vocabulary police and exhibiting a lack of
> > familiarity with roof framing, do have any thoughts on the quarshun?
>
> Oh yeah, as far as the 24 O.C. rafters and 16" O.C ceiling joists, you're
> wrong.

The joist serves two purposes, first they keep the walls from
spreading apart (similar to a collar tie) and second is to give you
something to fasten your ceiling. Normally you have one ceiling joist
per rafter with the spacing of the joist the same as the rafter. This
is not always the case. You could have more joist than rafters. It
may be possible to have a rafter without an associated joist but that
would be something I have never seen.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:
> On Dec 14, 12:28 pm, "Bart" <b...@invalid.org> wrote:
>> "TigerLuck" <TigerLuck@the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:3Na1l.10102$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>> I can tell you haven't done or seen a whole lot of roof framing. It is
>>> quite common for rafters to be on 24" centers and collar ties/ceiling
>>> joists to be on 16" centers. The collar ties/ceiling joists tie the
>>> opposite walls together whether they are nailed to rafters or not.
>>> So aside from trying to play vocabulary police and exhibiting a lack of
>>> familiarity with roof framing, do have any thoughts on the quarshun?
>> Oh yeah, as far as the 24 O.C. rafters and 16" O.C ceiling joists, you're
>> wrong.
>
> The joist serves two purposes, first they keep the walls from
> spreading apart (similar to a collar tie) and second is to give you
> something to fasten your ceiling. Normally you have one ceiling joist
> per rafter with the spacing of the joist the same as the rafter. This
> is not always the case. You could have more joist than rafters. It
> may be possible to have a rafter without an associated joist but that
> would be something I have never seen.
>
> Jimmie
Pretty much every stick-framed roof I have ever seen was like that. 16
oc joists below, to give the drywall guys something to nail to and make
the attic useful for storage, and rafters above spaced based on code and
local snow load. For a 5-12 roof, 24" is quite common. Only places I
ever saw rafters 16 oc was where they had killer snow loads, high winds,
or the wanted a bunch of silly-ass dormers on a 12-12 roof. (IOW, prep
attic for future finishing- those drywall guys again.) Those were
usually 2x8 or 2x10 rafters, even though they were more closely spaced,
to allow airspace between insulation and roof deck. (Not sure what they
would do these days, when you need 12-16 inches of insulation in attic-
maybe not run the knee walls into the rafters, and create angled
bulkhead between kneewall and room ceiling? )

BTW, collar ties are NOT the same as ceiling joists, unless you meant
for the attic ceiling, so it could be finished out. Usually one for
every other rafter, round these parts. Often only a 1x6, since it only
needs strength lengthwise.

--
aem sends....

On Dec 14, 11:48*am, TigerLuck <TigerLuck@the_wild_kingdom.com> wrote:

> So aside from trying to play vocabulary police and exhibiting a lack of
> familiarity with roof framing, do have any thoughts on the quarshun?
>

What the hell is a "quarshun"?