The new span will be 23\' uniformly loaded with joists 16\" on center. I
would like to do a combination built up 2 x 10 wood beam or 9 1/2\" LVL
with flitch plates to achieve a minimum of 1/360 of 23\' stiffness. The
dead load is 70 psf and the live load is 40 psf. How many plies of Dougles
Fir/LVL and 1/4\" x 9 1/2\" steel plate would it take .

I have been told that a triple LVL will suffice, but I am a little leary
about the 23\" span with the loads I have come up with. My math might be
off a bit, but I come up with a wieght of 1760 plf. using a combined live
and dead load of 110 psf. If so what would the deflection be using just
LVL\'s?

I have yet to find a header span table that will tell me what the
combination of flitch plates and any kind of wood are. Is there one
available? Does anyone know a calculation I can use?

Thanks. Jon

On Feb 20, 11:19 am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (Jon
Moore) wrote:
>
> The new span will be 23\' uniformly loaded with joists 16\" on center. I
> would like to do a combination built up 2 x 10 wood beam or 9 1/2\" LVL
> with flitch plates to achieve a minimum of 1/360 of 23\' stiffness. The
> dead load is 70 psf and the live load is 40 psf. How many plies of Dougles
> Fir/LVL and 1/4\" x 9 1/2\" steel plate would it take .
>
> I have been told that a triple LVL will suffice, but I am a little leary
> about the 23\" span with the loads I have come up with. My math might be
> off a bit, but I come up with a wieght of 1760 plf. using a combined live
> and dead load of 110 psf. If so what would the deflection be using just
> LVL\'s?
>
> I have yet to find a header span table that will tell me what the
> combination of flitch plates and any kind of wood are. Is there one
> available? Does anyone know a calculation I can use?
>
> Thanks. Jon

Beam height is obviously the major issue for you, and a 9.5" depth
severely restricts your possible solutions. A couple questions. Your
dead load seems exceedingly high, how did you come up with it? Is the
existing beam a flush beam or do the joists sit on it? If it's the
latter, you could bump up the depth of the beam considerably making it
easier to comply with the apparent headroom restriction. It's a bit
more work to cut back all of the joists, but it wouldn't take days.

I doubt it can be done with LVLs at that depth at a price point that
would have it make sense. Steel would probably be cheaper. Call a
local iron guy and get a rough ballpark for installing a 24' beam
replacement. If it's a basement, they'll knock a hole in the wall/
foundation and slide it in.

R

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/constru...ent-20521-.htm
jon moore wrote:

RicodJour wrote:

> On Feb 20, 11:19 am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (Jon
> Moore) wrote:
>>
>> The new span will be 23\\\' uniformly loaded with joists 16\\\"
>> on center. I
>> would like to do a combination built up 2 x 10 wood beam or 9
>> 1/2\\\" LVL
>> with flitch plates to achieve a minimum of 1/360 of 23\\\'
>> stiffness. The
>> dead load is 70 psf and the live load is 40 psf. How many plies of
>> Dougles
>> Fir/LVL and 1/4\\\" x 9 1/2\\\" steel plate would it take .
>>
>> I have been told that a triple LVL will suffice, but I am a little
>> leary
>> about the 23\\\" span with the loads I have come up with. My
>> math might be
>> off a bit, but I come up with a wieght of 1760 plf. using a
>> combined live
>> and dead load of 110 psf. If so what would the deflection be using
>> just
>> LVL\\\'s?
>>
>> I have yet to find a header span table that will tell me what the
>> combination of flitch plates and any kind of wood are. Is there
>> one
>> available? Does anyone know a calculation I can use?
>>
>> Thanks. Jon

> Beam height is obviously the major issue for you, and a 9.5\" depth
> severely restricts your possible solutions. A couple questions. Your
> dead load seems exceedingly high, how did you come up with it? Is the
> existing beam a flush beam or do the joists sit on it? If it\'s the
> latter, you could bump up the depth of the beam considerably making it
> easier to comply with the apparent headroom restriction. It\'s a bit
> more work to cut back all of the joists, but it wouldn\'t take days.

> I doubt it can be done with LVLs at that depth at a price point that
> would have it make sense. Steel would probably be cheaper. Call a
> local iron guy and get a rough ballpark for installing a 24\' beam
> replacement. If it\'s a basement, they\'ll knock a hole in the wall/
> foundation and slide it in.

> R
The dead load is based on the wall above. The entire length of the beam is
a bearing wall. 2x4 with 3/8\" drywall and 1/2\" plaster. 2x8 cieling
joists with the same finish as the walls. 2x6 roof joists bearing every
6\' from the ridge. The joists sit on top of the beam. The joist spaces
above the beam are occupied with HVAC ducts, so using the space above
isn\'t available. I agree LVL\'s alone at 9 1/2\" would not work. But with
the addition of 2 to 3- 1/4\" x 9 1/2\" flitch plates sandwiched and
bolted all togther with the LVL\'s I was thinking this would be enough. I
just need to be sure. Do you have any information on the spans available
for let\'s say 3- 9 1/2\" LVL\'s with 2- 1/4\" x 9 1/2\" flitch plates.
One other question I have is how big would the footing need to be to take
the added transfered load one one end. The other end would be in the
existing beam pocket in the existing 8\" concrete foundation wall.


-------------------------------------

On Feb 21, 7:45*am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (jon moore)
wrote:
> responding tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/construction/Removing-posts-in-a-basemen...
>
>
>
> jon moore wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
> > On Feb 20, 11:19 am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (Jon
> > Moore) wrote:
>
> >> The new span will be 23\\\' uniformly loaded with joists 16\\\"
> >> on center. I
> >> would like to do a combination built up 2 x 10 wood beam or 9
> >> 1/2\\\" LVL
> >> with flitch plates to achieve a minimum of 1/360 of 23\\\'
> >> stiffness. The
> >> dead load is 70 psf and the live load is 40 psf. How many plies of
> >> Dougles
> >> Fir/LVL and 1/4\\\" x 9 1/2\\\" steel plate would it take .
>
> >> I have been told that a triple LVL will suffice, but I am a little
> >> leary
> >> about the 23\\\" span with the loads I have come up with. My
> >> math might be
> >> off a bit, but I come up with a wieght of 1760 plf. using a
> >> combined live
> >> and dead load of 110 psf. If so what would the deflection be using
> >> just
> >> LVL\\\'s?
>
> >> I have yet to find a header span table that will tell me what the
> >> combination of flitch plates and any kind of wood are. Is there
> >> one
> >> available? Does anyone know a calculation I can use?
>
> >> Thanks. Jon
> > Beam height is obviously the major issue for you, and a 9.5\" depth
> > severely restricts your possible solutions. *A couple questions. *Your
> > dead load seems exceedingly high, how did you come up with it? *Is the
> > existing beam a flush beam or do the joists sit on it? *If it\'s the
> > latter, you could bump up the depth of the beam considerably making it
> > easier to comply with the apparent headroom restriction. *It\'s a bit
> > more work to cut back all of the joists, but it wouldn\'t take days.
> > I doubt it can be done with LVLs at that depth at a price point that
> > would have it make sense. *Steel would probably be cheaper. *Call a
> > local iron guy and get a rough ballpark for installing a 24\' beam
> > replacement. *If it\'s a basement, they\'ll knock a hole in the wall/
> > foundation and slide it in.
> > R
>
> The dead load is based on the wall above. The entire length of the beam is
> a bearing wall. 2x4 with 3/8\" drywall and 1/2\" plaster. 2x8 cieling
> joists with the same finish as the walls. 2x6 roof joists bearing every
> 6\' from the ridge. The joists sit on top of the beam. The joist spaces
> above the beam are occupied with HVAC ducts, so using the space above
> isn\'t available. I agree LVL\'s alone at 9 1/2\" would not work. But with
> the addition of 2 to 3- 1/4\" x 9 1/2\" flitch plates sandwiched and
> bolted all togther with the LVL\'s I was thinking this would be enough. I
> just need to be sure. Do you have any information on the spans available
> for let\'s say 3- 9 1/2\" LVL\'s with 2- 1/4\" x 9 1/2\" flitch plates.
> One other question I have is how big would the footing need to be to take
> the added transfered load one one end. The other end would be in the
> existing beam pocket in the existing 8\" concrete foundation wall.

Back up there a minute. You are off base on a number of things. You
have a beam that is taking first floor loads, attic loads (it doesn't
matter if you don't think the space can be used or not, loads have to
be attributed to it) and you have the roof loads. Snow, wind,
seismic, and all the dead loads as well. And you also have the issue
of bearing capacity, which would almost assuredly be exceeded if you
went with a built-up wood beam.

My guess is that due to height restrictions and the overall cost of
construction, you're probably going to need steel, and I'm not talking
about some 1/4" flitches (3/8" or 1/2" plate is far more common). But
if you want to see if wood will work, draw up some simple floor plans
with dimensions, indicate joist directions and existing bearing walls,
and take it to your local building supply. If they're in a good mood,
and don't think you're in over your head, they might extend the
courtesy given to contractors and forward it to their LVL supplier,
and their in-house design will work up a solution. That's a lot of
ifs, but it would be free.

The other choices are to hire an ironworker to engineer and install a
beam, or hire an engineer or architect familiar with your local codes
and conditions to design you a solution that fits your needs.

R

responding to
http://www.homeownershub.com/constru...ent-20521-.htm
jon moore wrote:

RicodJour wrote:

> On Feb 21, 7:45=A0am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (jon moore)
> wrote:
>> responding
>> tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/construction/Removing-posts-in-=
> a-basemen...
>>
>>
>>
>> jon moore wrote:
>> RicodJour wrote:
>> > On Feb 20, 11:19 am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com
>>> (Jon
>> > Moore) wrote:
>>
>> >> The new span will be 23\\\' uniformly loaded with joists
>>>> 16\\\"
>> >> on center. I
>> >> would like to do a combination built up 2 x 10 wood beam
>>>> or 9
>> >> 1/2\\\" LVL
>> >> with flitch plates to achieve a minimum of 1/360 of
>>>> 23\\\'
>> >> stiffness. The
>> >> dead load is 70 psf and the live load is 40 psf. How many
>>>> plies of
>> >> Dougles
>> >> Fir/LVL and 1/4\\\" x 9 1/2\\\" steel plate
>>>> would it take .
>>
>> >> I have been told that a triple LVL will suffice, but I am
>>>> a little
>> >> leary
>> >> about the 23\\\" span with the loads I have come up
>>>> with. My
>> >> math might be
>> >> off a bit, but I come up with a wieght of 1760 plf. using
>>>> a
>> >> combined live
>> >> and dead load of 110 psf. If so what would the deflection
>>>> be using
>> >> just
>> >> LVL\\\'s?
>>
>> >> I have yet to find a header span table that will tell me
>>>> what the
>> >> combination of flitch plates and any kind of wood are. Is
>>>> there
>> >> one
>> >> available? Does anyone know a calculation I can use?
>>
>> >> Thanks. Jon
>> > Beam height is obviously the major issue for you, and a
>>> 9.5\\\" depth
>> > severely restricts your possible solutions. =A0A couple
>>> questions. =A0Y=
> our
>> > dead load seems exceedingly high, how did you come up with
>>> it? =A0Is th=
> e
>> > existing beam a flush beam or do the joists sit on it? =A0If
>>> it\\\'s the
>> > latter, you could bump up the depth of the beam considerably
>>> making it
>> > easier to comply with the apparent headroom restriction.
>>> =A0It\\\'s a bit
>> > more work to cut back all of the joists, but it wouldn\\\'t
>>> take days.
>> > I doubt it can be done with LVLs at that depth at a price
>>> point that
>> > would have it make sense. =A0Steel would probably be cheaper.
>>> =A0Call a
>> > local iron guy and get a rough ballpark for installing a 24\\\'
>>> beam
>> > replacement. =A0If it\\\'s a basement, they\\\'ll knock a hole in
>>> the wall/
>> > foundation and slide it in.
>> > R
>>
>> The dead load is based on the wall above. The entire length of the
>> beam i=
> s
>> a bearing wall. 2x4 with 3/8\\\" drywall and 1/2\\\"
>> plaster. 2x8 cieling
>> joists with the same finish as the walls. 2x6 roof joists bearing
>> every
>> 6\\\' from the ridge. The joists sit on top of the beam. The joist
>> spaces
>> above the beam are occupied with HVAC ducts, so using the space
>> above
>> isn\\\'t available. I agree LVL\\\'s alone at 9 1/2\\\" would not
>> work. But wit=
> h
>> the addition of 2 to 3- 1/4\\\" x 9 1/2\\\" flitch plates
>> sandwiched and
>> bolted all togther with the LVL\\\'s I was thinking this would be
>> enough. I
>> just need to be sure. Do you have any information on the spans
>> available
>> for let\\\'s say 3- 9 1/2\\\" LVL\\\'s with 2- 1/4\\\" x 9
>> 1/2\\\" flitch plates.
>> One other question I have is how big would the footing need to be
>> to take
>> the added transfered load one one end. The other end would be in
>> the
>> existing beam pocket in the existing 8\\\" concrete foundation
>> wall.

> Back up there a minute. You are off base on a number of things. You
> have a beam that is taking first floor loads, attic loads (it doesn\'t
> matter if you don\'t think the space can be used or not, loads have to
> be attributed to it) and you have the roof loads. Snow, wind,
> seismic, and all the dead loads as well. And you also have the issue
> of bearing capacity, which would almost assuredly be exceeded if you
> went with a built-up wood beam.

> My guess is that due to height restrictions and the overall cost of
> construction, you\'re probably going to need steel, and I\'m not talking
> about some 1/4\" flitches (3/8\" or 1/2\" plate is far more
> common). But
> if you want to see if wood will work, draw up some simple floor plans
> with dimensions, indicate joist directions and existing bearing walls,
> and take it to your local building supply. If they\'re in a good mood,
> and don\'t think you\'re in over your head, they might extend the
> courtesy given to contractors and forward it to their LVL supplier,
> and their in-house design will work up a solution. That\'s a lot of
> ifs, but it would be free.

> The other choices are to hire an ironworker to engineer and install a
> beam, or hire an engineer or architect familiar with your local codes
> and conditions to design you a solution that fits your needs.

> R

Ok. Thanks. I do have some friends in the engineering field. I will take
your advice and use their expertise. I will let you know what transpires.

-------------------------------------

I would think this is the best route. After all you are going to need
engineering on your plan.
john
"jon moore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:2a5ef$4d63a7f7$45499b77$(E-Mail Removed) roups.com...
> responding to
> http://www.homeownershub.com/constru...ent-20521-.htm
> jon moore wrote:
>
> RicodJour wrote:
>
>> On Feb 21, 7:45=A0am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (jon moore)
>> wrote:
>>> responding
>>> tohttp://www.homeownershub.com/construction/Removing-posts-in-=
>> a-basemen...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jon moore wrote:
>>> RicodJour wrote:
>>> > On Feb 20, 11:19 am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com
>>>> (Jon
>>> > Moore) wrote:
>>>
>>> >> The new span will be 23\\\' uniformly loaded with joists
>>>>> 16\\\"
>>> >> on center. I
>>> >> would like to do a combination built up 2 x 10 wood beam
>>>>> or 9
>>> >> 1/2\\\" LVL
>>> >> with flitch plates to achieve a minimum of 1/360 of
>>>>> 23\\\'
>>> >> stiffness. The
>>> >> dead load is 70 psf and the live load is 40 psf. How many
>>>>> plies of
>>> >> Dougles
>>> >> Fir/LVL and 1/4\\\" x 9 1/2\\\" steel plate
>>>>> would it take .
>>>
>>> >> I have been told that a triple LVL will suffice, but I am
>>>>> a little
>>> >> leary
>>> >> about the 23\\\" span with the loads I have come up
>>>>> with. My
>>> >> math might be
>>> >> off a bit, but I come up with a wieght of 1760 plf. using
>>>>> a
>>> >> combined live
>>> >> and dead load of 110 psf. If so what would the deflection
>>>>> be using
>>> >> just
>>> >> LVL\\\'s?
>>>
>>> >> I have yet to find a header span table that will tell me
>>>>> what the
>>> >> combination of flitch plates and any kind of wood are. Is
>>>>> there
>>> >> one
>>> >> available? Does anyone know a calculation I can use?
>>>
>>> >> Thanks. Jon
>>> > Beam height is obviously the major issue for you, and a
>>>> 9.5\\\" depth
>>> > severely restricts your possible solutions. =A0A couple
>>>> questions. =A0Y=
>> our
>>> > dead load seems exceedingly high, how did you come up with
>>>> it? =A0Is th=
>> e
>>> > existing beam a flush beam or do the joists sit on it? =A0If
>>>> it\\\'s the
>>> > latter, you could bump up the depth of the beam considerably
>>>> making it
>>> > easier to comply with the apparent headroom restriction.
>>>> =A0It\\\'s a bit
>>> > more work to cut back all of the joists, but it wouldn\\\'t
>>>> take days.
>>> > I doubt it can be done with LVLs at that depth at a price
>>>> point that
>>> > would have it make sense. =A0Steel would probably be cheaper.
>>>> =A0Call a
>>> > local iron guy and get a rough ballpark for installing a 24\\\'
>>>> beam
>>> > replacement. =A0If it\\\'s a basement, they\\\'ll knock a hole in
>>>> the wall/
>>> > foundation and slide it in.
>>> > R
>>>
>>> The dead load is based on the wall above. The entire length of the
>>> beam i=
>> s
>>> a bearing wall. 2x4 with 3/8\\\" drywall and 1/2\\\"
>>> plaster. 2x8 cieling
>>> joists with the same finish as the walls. 2x6 roof joists bearing
>>> every
>>> 6\\\' from the ridge. The joists sit on top of the beam. The joist
>>> spaces
>>> above the beam are occupied with HVAC ducts, so using the space
>>> above
>>> isn\\\'t available. I agree LVL\\\'s alone at 9 1/2\\\" would not
>>> work. But wit=
>> h
>>> the addition of 2 to 3- 1/4\\\" x 9 1/2\\\" flitch plates
>>> sandwiched and
>>> bolted all togther with the LVL\\\'s I was thinking this would be
>>> enough. I
>>> just need to be sure. Do you have any information on the spans
>>> available
>>> for let\\\'s say 3- 9 1/2\\\" LVL\\\'s with 2- 1/4\\\" x 9
>>> 1/2\\\" flitch plates.
>>> One other question I have is how big would the footing need to be
>>> to take
>>> the added transfered load one one end. The other end would be in
>>> the
>>> existing beam pocket in the existing 8\\\" concrete foundation
>>> wall.
>
>> Back up there a minute. You are off base on a number of things. You
>> have a beam that is taking first floor loads, attic loads (it doesn\'t
>> matter if you don\'t think the space can be used or not, loads have to
>> be attributed to it) and you have the roof loads. Snow, wind,
>> seismic, and all the dead loads as well. And you also have the issue
>> of bearing capacity, which would almost assuredly be exceeded if you
>> went with a built-up wood beam.
>
>> My guess is that due to height restrictions and the overall cost of
>> construction, you\'re probably going to need steel, and I\'m not talking
>> about some 1/4\" flitches (3/8\" or 1/2\" plate is far more
>> common). But
>> if you want to see if wood will work, draw up some simple floor plans
>> with dimensions, indicate joist directions and existing bearing walls,
>> and take it to your local building supply. If they\'re in a good mood,
>> and don\'t think you\'re in over your head, they might extend the
>> courtesy given to contractors and forward it to their LVL supplier,
>> and their in-house design will work up a solution. That\'s a lot of
>> ifs, but it would be free.
>
>> The other choices are to hire an ironworker to engineer and install a
>> beam, or hire an engineer or architect familiar with your local codes
>> and conditions to design you a solution that fits your needs.
>
>> R
>
> Ok. Thanks. I do have some friends in the engineering field. I will take
> your advice and use their expertise. I will let you know what transpires.
>
> -------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

On Feb 20, 11:19*am, jon.moore1023_at_yahoo_dot_...@foo.com (Jon
Moore) wrote:

Hey Jon. This initial post of yours didn't go through that
homeownersflub site - and I thank you for that, but your other two
posts did. Why is that?

That hub site is an aggregator that has ****ed off a lot of people for
a number of reasons. Making money off of the free advice that people
graciously provide on Usenet is a scummy thing to do. You will get
flack for posting through there...just saying.

R