blueman wrote:
> I know that the Fein Multimaster is supposed to be the gold standard
> but at $200+ for even the base model (and $400 for the Top with quick
> change, case, and attachments), the tool seems quite overpriced. Plus,
> they charge a fortune for blades at about $15 a pop.
>
> At the other extreme, Harbor Freight (yes, I know all the "bad" about
> Chinese made/plastic/knock-offs etc.) offers a Multi-Function power
> tool that seems to be perpetually on sale for about $39. Perhaps even
> more importantly, the blades are $6 for a set of 3!!!
>
> In the middle perhaps is the Dremmel Multi-Max Oscillating kit for
> $100 with blades going for about $10 a piece.
>
> Has anybody had experience with these or other oscillating
> multi-function tools? If so do you have any perspectives on the
> cost/benefit ratios of these different models?
>
> i.e., Is it worth paying almost 10X for the Fein and its blades? Do
> the blades really last 10 times longer? Is the tool itself
> significantly more powerful or durable or comfortable to use or quiet,
> etc.?
>
>
> Now again please spare me the general rantings about Harbor Freight. I
> am asking *specifically* about this tool. In fact, I usually subscribe
> to the principle of buying high quality tools and "paying and crying
> only once" but the difference here seems to be so substantial and
> because of the high price of Fein blades the pain and crying is not
> just a one-time thing. Also, I have in general had good experiences
> with Harbor Freight for buying occassional use tools that I otherwise
> couldn't either afford -- and if it's a tool that I find I really
> like, then I consider the $20-50 spent as the cost of a home trial
> and don't mind upgrading to a name brand. On the other hand, I
> wouldn't trust Harbor Freight for heavy duty precision power tools
> such as a sliding compound miter saw.

I'm just going to discuss the blades briefly. You can buy them anywhere,
but based on my experience with HF's reciprocating saw blades I wouldn't
bother buying them there. When I got my reciprocating saw I got a package of
the cheap blades and they were just about worthless. In fact I am
happy with the saw, since I am not a professional and only use it
occasionally. But I buy good blades, wherever I happen to be. The
blades are definitely the biggest expense for a saw. I expect for the
multi-tool it will be just about the same. You can shop around for
less expensive blades, but don't go too cheap.

Bill

HeyBub wrote:
> BillGill wrote:
>> I'm just going to discuss the blades briefly. You can buy them
>> anywhere, but based on my experience with HF's reciprocating saw
>> blades I wouldn't bother buying them there. When I got my
>> reciprocating saw I got a package of the cheap blades and they were
>> just about worthless. In fact I am happy with the saw, since I am not a
>> professional and only use it
>> occasionally. But I buy good blades, wherever I happen to be. The
>> blades are definitely the biggest expense for a saw. I expect for the
>> multi-tool it will be just about the same. You can shop around for
>> less expensive blades, but don't go too cheap.
>>
>
> "Blade" is a bit of a misnomer for these multi-function tools. They're not
> really "blades" in the sense we're used to thinking about. They're not
> sharp, they don't really "cut" (more like gnaw). You can't really "dull"
> them, since they're "dull" to begin with. You CAN wear the cutting blade
> down to where it has no teeth, but then you have a brand-new "scraper"
> blade!
>
> Conversely, you can take a "scraper" blade and notch it with a Dremel rotary
> tool and have a brand-new "cutting" blade.
>
> It's so confusing.
>
> About the closest thing to which I can compare the cutting blades is a
> stiff, thin, wire brush.
>
>
The shape of the blade may not make a difference, but the material might.
I figure that was the big problem with the blade pack I got at HF.

Bill

On Jun 19, 3:30*pm, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> BillGill wrote:
> > HeyBub wrote:
> >> BillGill wrote:
> >>> I'm just going to discuss the blades briefly. *You can buy them
> >>> anywhere, but based on my experience with HF's reciprocating saw
> >>> blades I wouldn't bother buying them there. *When I got my
> >>> reciprocating saw I got a package of the cheap blades and they were
> >>> just about worthless. *In fact I am happy with the saw, since I am
> >>> not a professional and only use it
> >>> occasionally. *But I buy good blades, wherever I happen to be. *The
> >>> blades are definitely the biggest expense for a saw. *I expect for
> >>> the multi-tool it will be just about the same. *You can shop around
> >>> for less expensive blades, but don't go too cheap.
>
> >> "Blade" is a bit of a misnomer for these multi-function tools.
> >> They're not really "blades" in the sense we're used to thinking
> >> about. They're not sharp, they don't really "cut" (more like gnaw).
> >> You can't really "dull" them, since they're "dull" to begin with.
> >> You CAN wear the cutting blade down to where it has no teeth, but
> >> then you have a brand-new "scraper" blade!
>
> >> Conversely, you can take a "scraper" blade and notch it with a
> >> Dremel rotary tool and have a brand-new "cutting" blade.
>
> >> It's so confusing.
>
> >> About the closest thing to which I can compare the cutting blades is
> >> a stiff, thin, wire brush.
>
> > The shape of the blade may not make a difference, but the material
> > might. I figure that was the big problem with the blade pack I got at
> > HF.
>
> Possibly, but the blades you got for your reciprocating saw are not the same
> kind of blades as those for the multi-function tool. For example, the MF
> blades don't get dull.
>
> For the MF tool, you could probably make your own blades out of beer-can
> metal and they'd work just as well.

You're just flat out making stuff up and/or extrapolating from little
use/experience and basing your advice on that.

There's almost nothing in the tool world where "all steel is created
equal". If you're starting with crap blades, I'd bet that they work
as crap blades and die like crap blades, so maybe you could cut up
beer cans to make blades and not notice a difference.

I've tried aftermarket blades on the Fein, and there's little doubt
the Fein blades are better quality steel. The blades are also sharp -
at least the E-cut blades are - so I really don't know what you're
talking about. There's a guy online who posted about making his own
MF tool blades from Japanese saw blades. I haven't tried that, but
the Fein steel is in the same ballpark as your standard Japanese saw
blade steel.

The Bosch blades I've used are pretty good, but not as good as the
Fein. The Harbor Freight blades aren't worth the shipping charge. I
keep trashed blades on hand for trash work, but sometimes you have to
sacrifice a blade.

Blades are consumables and are a cost of doing business - even if
you're not getting paid for it, it's still the cost of doing
business. I had to cut off an old brass steam radiator valve that was
stuck in the corner of two walls. It was in a bathroom and access was
very limited. I couldn't get big ass wrenches on the thing, tried a
torch to loosen it up, nothing worked. If I got too heavy-handed I'd
end up breaking loose the nipple somewhere down in the floor, and I'd
have never known it until there was a big problem with mold or other
rot. I wasn't about to rip up tile or rip out the ceiling below.

Out came the Fein and a good metal cutting blade. I cut through the
valve vertically (perpendicular to the threads) in two places and made
a horizontal cut along the top of the two cuts. I had to cut through
~3/8" of old brass and it did take a while, but it worked and worked
beautifully. I had a strong light on the cut and I could see just
where the nipple threads started to telegraph through the brass in the
kerf. I took off the valve with the wrench and was _very_ pleased to
see that there was not a single mark on the nipple threads.

The MF tool took a little longer but was far more controllable than
any other tool. The variable speed was indispensable, as was the
quality blade. I essentially killed a $25 blade, but I would have
burnt through five or six of the crap blades, maybe two or three of
the Bosch blades. Still, for $25 I got a factory job and peace of
mind.

You are happy with your HF MF tool to cut pumpkins and the like, and
that's great, but you have no experience with a higher quality tool,
so you shouldn't go making blanket statements based on nothing more
than your emotions. That's some sort of advice - certainly not good
advice.

R

On Jun 19, 7:10*pm, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 3:30 pm, "HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> For the MF tool, you could probably make your own blades out of
> >> beer-can metal and they'd work just as well.
>
> > You're just flat out making stuff up and/or extrapolating from little
> > use/experience and basing your advice on that.
>
> > There's almost nothing in the tool world where "all steel is created
> > equal". *If you're starting with crap blades, I'd bet that they work
> > as crap blades and die like crap blades, so maybe you could cut up
> > beer cans to make blades and not notice a difference.
>
> > I've tried aftermarket blades on the Fein, and there's little doubt
> > the Fein blades are better quality steel. *The blades are also sharp -
> > at least the E-cut blades are - so I really don't know what you're
> > talking about. *There's a guy online who posted about making his own
> > MF tool blades from Japanese saw blades. *I haven't tried that, but
> > the Fein steel is in the same ballpark as your standard Japanese saw
> > blade steel.
>
> > The Bosch blades I've used are pretty good, but not as good as the
> > Fein. *The Harbor Freight blades aren't worth the shipping charge. *I
> > keep trashed blades on hand for trash work, but sometimes you have to
> > sacrifice a blade.
>
> > Blades are consumables and are a cost of doing business - even if
> > you're not getting paid for it, it's still the cost of doing
> > business. *I had to cut off an old brass steam radiator valve that was
> > stuck in the corner of two walls. *It was in a bathroom and access was
> > very limited. *I couldn't get big ass wrenches on the thing, tried a
> > torch to loosen it up, nothing worked. *If I got too heavy-handed I'd
> > end up breaking loose the nipple somewhere down in the floor, and I'd
> > have never known it until there was a big problem with mold or other
> > rot. *I wasn't about to rip up tile or rip out the ceiling below.
>
> > Out came the Fein and a good metal cutting blade. *I cut through the
> > valve vertically (perpendicular to the threads) in two places and made
> > a horizontal cut along the top of the two cuts. *I had to cut through
> > ~3/8" of old brass and it did take a while, but it worked and worked
> > beautifully. *I had a strong light on the cut and I could see just
> > where the nipple threads started to telegraph through the brass in the
> > kerf. *I took off the valve with the wrench and was _very_ pleased to
> > see that there was not a single mark on the nipple threads.
>
> > The MF tool took a little longer but was far more controllable than
> > any other tool. *The variable speed was indispensable, as was the
> > quality blade. *I essentially killed a $25 blade, but I would have
> > burnt through five or six of the crap blades, maybe two or three of
> > the Bosch blades. *Still, for $25 I got a factory job and peace of
> > mind.
>
> > You are happy with your HF MF tool to cut pumpkins and the like, and
> > that's great, but you have no experience with a higher quality tool,
> > so you shouldn't go making blanket statements based on nothing more
> > than your emotions. *That's some sort of advice - certainly not good
> > advice.
>
> Thanks for playing "Guess the posters attitudes and experiences."
> Unfortunately, you didn't win. Better luck next time.
>
> I have used quality tools. In fact, I own TWO Stanley screwdrivers! (I used
> to have three, but one grew legs. I suspect my worthless brother-in-law was
> somehow involved since he has a screwdriver that looks suspiciously like the
> one I used to have.)

Chuckle, Chuckle. Have you used any other MF tool besides the HF?
Other blades?

> You are correct about varying quality in steel. The usual trade-off is
> hardness vs. brittlness. Harder steel lasts longer but is prone to
> shattering - more malleable steel won't break, but won't hold an edge. Think
> carving knive vs butter knife.

Think metallurgists who actually know what they're doing, and a
company that isn't trying to cut every conceivable corner in costs.

> In your experience of using up a $25 dollar blade vs five or six $2.00
> blades (HF 3 for $6), I'm sure there's an economic lesson there we should
> all consider.

Yes indeedy. The lesson is I'm not going to take the time dicking
around with a slower cutting blade and having to change it every three
minutes.

The $25 blade is not dead, it's been sacrificed - think of it as
maimed. I still use it where I might run into nails and for cutting
into drywall and stuff. I'm just as concerned with making my dollar
go as far as possible as you are. I just don't think my time has no
value.

> I'm glad it all worked for you.

Me, too. Thanks. I actually took pictures of the cut off valve and
emailed them to my brother. I knew he'd get a kick out of the
surgery.

> P.S.
>
> Just finished another experiment.
>
> I took a "scraping" blade about 2" wide and notched it with a rotary dremel.
> Cut about 20 notches, each about 1/16" deep.
>
> The resulting modified blade cuts wood.
>
> Not as fast as if it had pointed teeth instead of notches, but it DOES cut.

So would anything that vibrates at 20,000 RPM.

It's not a question of if the blade will cut, but if it will cut
efficiently and not create problems for me. I happen to think that
wasted blade changes, slower cutting and limited longevity are
problems. I don't think spending money for something of better
quality is necessarily a problem. I have many ways to save and make
money. I don't usually worry about squeezing blood out of my tool
dollars - there are better places to do the squeezing.

R