On Dec 24, 5:25*am, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I rarely use hammers & nails as I typically prefer to use screws over nails.
>
> However once in a while I need to use nails.
>
> I have to do some mending of framing in the attic and I need to nail wood
> gussets to a joint. *The space in the attic is tight and angle is awkward.
> I cannot get enough leverage so I end up bending and messing up the nailsas
> I hammer them in. *I don't think this is productive...
>
> Is there a proper way to use a hammer to stop the nails from being bent?
>
> or is there a proper tool to do what I am doing without a hammer? *I cannot
> use a nail gun, I need to use 10d nails.
>
> Unless I can use screws to serve the same purpose and drive them using a
> power drill with a tight angle attachment.
>
> Thanks,
>
> MC

MC-

I was quite handy with a hammer (when younger & much more
practiced). As I have gotten older one trick that works for me is a
mill faced hammer. The milled face keeps hammer from slipping off the
nail head & reduces the tendency to bend the nails.

But in your situation, since this is going to be a "one off" project,
I would suggest a palm nailer.
I bought my Senco used on ebay but I'm sure Harbor Freight has a cheap
knock off.

You could also use a Senco 16 gage 7/16" crown stapler w/ 2"
staples. And staple the crap out of the plywood gussets. Based on
some strength & stiffness tests I did .......... I figured two
staples have "about" the same capacity as one 10d nail.

Another nice thing about staples is that the "trauma" to the wood is a
lot less than that for large diameter nails.

cheers
Bob

On 2008-12-24, BobK207 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> You could also use a Senco 16 gage 7/16" crown stapler w/ 2"
> staples. And staple the crap out of the plywood gussets. Based on
> some strength & stiffness tests I did .......... I figured two
> staples have "about" the same capacity as one 10d nail.

Hi Bob,

I've always wondered about staples, does their shear strength differ
in the two direction, parallel to the crown and perpendicular to the
crown?

Thanks, Wayne

On Dec 24, 9:43*am, Wayne Whitney <whit...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
> On 2008-12-24, BobK207 <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You could also use a Senco 16 gage 7/16" crown stapler w/ 2"
> > staples. * And staple the crap out of the plywood gussets. *Based on
> > some strength & stiffness tests I did .......... * I figured two
> > staples have "about" the same capacity as one 10d nail.
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I've always wondered about staples, does their shear strength differ
> in the two direction, parallel to the crown and perpendicular to the
> crown?
>
> Thanks, Wayne

The tests I did were with plywood (1/2 - 3/4) stapled to a 2x4
flatwise as the "receiving" member.

The staples were Senco 16 gage 7/16" crown fired from an M2 stapler.

Samples made with clusters of 5 staples were tested & yielded about
250 lbs per staple peak load.
Based on load vs deflection (deflections at peak load were quite
large) I chose to use 50bs, where deflection was well below 1/16" as
a "design load"

For long staples (2") that resulted in 1 1/4" or more staple
engagement, fastener withdrawal did not occur.
The staples remained in the receiving member and "mushed over / pulled
through" the plywood

For shorter staples, that resulted in less than 1" staple engage,
staple withdrawal occurred and peak loads were lower.

Staple orientation seemed to have an effect on deflection at peak
strength but not peak strength.

The reason I like staples is that they don't damage the receiving
member as much as larger nails and (imo) they can approach the
behavior of factory installed truss plates better than nailed
connections.

People tend to focus on strength of a connection but timber
connections have both strength and stiffness characteristics and
depending on the situation, one can be more important than the other.

cheers
Bob

"MiamiCuse" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
-snip-
>The problem is I don't have a compressor to drive the palm nailer anyways,
>so either way I think I need to spend some money on something to make the
-snip-

I haven't hired a pro for anything but autowork in 30 years. Yet
it was just a couple years ago that I bought my [first] compressor.
Shaking my head now when I think of how much I could have used it over
the years.

I have a cheap Harbor freight job- 10gallons, rated 2HP- about $120 on
sale. It is a little slow for grinding, die cutting and
sandblasting. But I've nailed, painted, blown things clean, etc to my
hearts content.

>Is there an air tool that would do finish nailing, structural nailing, and
>also punch wood into concrete?

For nailers I have a Porter Cable FR350 framer that drives 3 1/2" full
headed nails; a Bostitch finish nailer that drives 1" to 2" finish
nails; and a couple $10 brad nailers and staplers from Harbor Freight.

Driving finish nails and not having to go back and set them is a real
pleasure. The brad nailers are pretty handy, too. I don't do a
lot of framing but if I did I can see where the framer would be a big
timesaver. For me it just saves my elbow joints.

For attaching framing lumber to concrete I like Tapcons. There is a
T-nailer that drives hardened nails, but I've never seen one at work.

Jim

On Dec 25, 7:10*pm, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "BobK207" <rkaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8a02a488-ed08-4074-8c6c-(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Dec 24, 5:25 am, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I rarely use hammers & nails as I typically prefer to use screws over
> > nails.
>
> > However once in a while I need to use nails.
>
> > I have to do some mending of framing in the attic and I need to nail wood
> > gussets to a joint. The space in the attic is tight and angle is awkward.
> > I cannot get enough leverage so I end up bending and messing up the nails
> > as
> > I hammer them in. I don't think this is productive...
>
> > Is there a proper way to use a hammer to stop the nails from being bent?
>
> > or is there a proper tool to do what I am doing without a hammer? I cannot
> > use a nail gun, I need to use 10d nails.
>
> > Unless I can use screws to serve the same purpose and drive them using a
> > power drill with a tight angle attachment.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > MC
> >MC-
> >I was quite handy with a hammer (when younger & much more
> >practiced). * As I have gotten older one trick that works for me is a
> >mill faced hammer. *The milled face keeps hammer from slipping off the
> >nail head & reduces the tendency to bend the nails.
> >But in your situation, since this is going to be a "one off" project,
> >I would suggest a palm nailer.
> >I bought my Senco used on ebay but I'm sure Harbor Freight has a cheap
> >knock off.
> >You could also use a Senco 16 gage 7/16" crown stapler w/ 2"
> >staples. * And staple the crap out of the plywood gussets. *Based on
> >some strength & stiffness tests I did .......... * I figured two
> >staples have "about" the same capacity as one 10d nail.
> >Another nice thing about staples is that the "trauma" to the wood is a
> >lot less than that for large diameter nails.
> >cheers
> >Bob
>
> Bob:
>
> Thanks,
>
> The problem is I don't have a compressor to drive the palm nailer anyways,
> so either way I think I need to spend some money on something to make the
> job easier. *I have three areas in the attic to use this on, so it willhelp
> me greatly if this is a time and elbow grease saver. *I deliberately waited
> till winter time to do this project because summer time in Miami up in the
> attic at 105 degrees in an awkward position is not fun, further more I
> recently strained my back so that also made it harder for me to have the
> maximum effect on hammering.
>
> Looking further ahead on my fasteners need in my never ending remodeling
> job, I am going to subcontract the sheet rock and flooring, so I don't need
> to worry about that myself. *I will need to repair some 1/2" thick wood
> soffit ceiling panels "Ply-Bead" that I need to either nail or staple, *I
> have 7 rooms of baseboards and interior door trims which I will do myself
> (finish nailers), and quite a few furring strips and panels I need to attach
> to concrete walls (to attach cabinets and shelving and industrial lighting),
> so perhaps if I look ahead if might pay for me to invest in a good
> compressor and some air tools. *I would rather get fewer good quality tools
> then a bunch of one off items.
>
> Is there an air tool that would do finish nailing, structural nailing, and
> also punch wood into concrete?
>
> MC- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The New Craftman nailer tool is a Battery operated nailer, very small,
But a cheap Remington gun nail driver is quicker and a heavy duty
tool, and you will get a bang out of work. The Craftsman will only
give you a buzz.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:22:25 -0500, "MiamiCuse"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have seen a tool someone used to attach PT 1x form work to concrete walls.
>It drives a nail into the wood and concrete and the nail has a plastic
>orange gear looking like tail attached to it. I wonder what that tool is,
>is it a nailer?

Sounds like a Ramset-
http://constructionfastening.com/Ram...FQMnGgodohebDg
[cool video]

Jim

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:27:20 -0500, Jim Elbrecht <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:22:25 -0500, "MiamiCuse"
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I have seen a tool someone used to attach PT 1x form work to concrete walls.
>>It drives a nail into the wood and concrete and the nail has a plastic
>>orange gear looking like tail attached to it. I wonder what that tool is,
>>is it a nailer?
>
>Sounds like a Ramset-
>http://constructionfastening.com/Ram...FQMnGgodohebDg
>[cool video]
>
>Jim

You can buy: Ramset 22 Caliber Single Shot Trigger Activated Powder
Actuated Tool - RS22 * Liquid Nails and a Ramset will do the job. Is
this just block walls or a solid poured wall?

HD had a hammer activated one for 20 bucks or so.

*
http://www.hechinger.com/hardware/online/ramset-rs22

On Dec 26, 10:22*am, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have seen a tool someone used to attach PT 1x form work to concrete walls.
> It drives a nail into the wood and concrete and the nail has a plastic
> orange gear looking like tail attached to it. *I wonder what that tool is,
> is it a nailer?

Probably a .22 caliber powered driver, cheap, and does concrete.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:21:25 -0500, "MiamiCuse"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Oren" <Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:27:20 -0500, Jim Elbrecht <(E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:22:25 -0500, "MiamiCuse"
>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have seen a tool someone used to attach PT 1x form work to concrete
>>>>walls.
>>>>It drives a nail into the wood and concrete and the nail has a plastic
>>>>orange gear looking like tail attached to it. I wonder what that tool
>>>>is,
>>>>is it a nailer?
>>>
>>>Sounds like a Ramset-
>>>http://constructionfastening.com/Ram...FQMnGgodohebDg
>>>[cool video]
>>>
>>>Jim
>>
>> You can buy: Ramset 22 Caliber Single Shot Trigger Activated Powder
>> Actuated Tool - RS22 * Liquid Nails and a Ramset will do the job. Is
>> this just block walls or a solid poured wall?
>>
>> HD had a hammer activated one for 20 bucks or so.
>>
>> *
>> http://www.hechinger.com/hardware/online/ramset-rs22
>
>Block wall in most areas and solid poured walls in a few other locations.
>Yes I think it is a ramset. For some reason I have always assumed it's an
>air tool of some sort. So I can go with gas tools or air tools?
>

Each wall may require a different load (color). Block and a solid wall
loads are different.

Ramset is gun-powder/rim fire shot. A good load/fastener will
penetrate.

Use butyl caulk and few shots fired the wood stay on the wall.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:31:04 -0500, "dadiOH" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>MiamiCuse wrote:
>
>> I heard that the remington gun nailer is very loud (almost like a gun
>> shot) is that true?

My guess is about like a fire cracker or a bull whip being cracked.
Use a good set of ear muff protection and safety glasses.

>
>They *are* gun shots. A 22 cartridge. How loud depends on the load...more
>powder = more noise. It also = more driving force and therin lies the
>problem...selecting the correct load for the work at hand. Too low and the
>nail won't penetrate fully; too high and you may well wind up with the nail
>driven completely through a board. One can't use the same load to attach a
>piece of soft wood to concrete block that one would use to attach it to
>concrete. Concrete varies in hardness too. Sometimes from spot to spot.

Fastening to steel is very loud (imo).

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD-yAjSPgwU