On 2/27/2009 11:48 PM MiamiCuse spake thus:

> In order to pass a 3/4" PVC electrical conduit from inside of the house to
> outside of the house below grade, I had to chip out part of the concrete
> block wall, and since it's below grade on the outside and then travels
> vertically up on the inside wall (to get to a junction box), I had to put
> two 45 degree elbows into the hollowed out section and that makes the hole
> more than the original drilled out 1" hole. Now I want to fill it back up
> with something. I don't want to use those expansion foam I would like to
> back fill with concrete. However, the cavity inside the 8" thick concrete
> block wall is bigger than the hole. I don't think I can "pour" concrete in.
>
> Is it ok to add more water to get the concrete "soupier" so I can pour it
> in? or is there another way? It's not a big cavity I think just about the
> size of a milk carton.

The fill isn't going to be structural, right? So even though it's poor
practice to soup-ify concrete, in this case it should be OK; you just
need to get some stuff in there, not develop any strength.

At least that's the way this non-concrete expert sees it.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 2/27/2009 11:48 PM MiamiCuse spake thus:
>
>> In order to pass a 3/4" PVC electrical conduit from inside of the
>> house to outside of the house below grade, I had to chip out part of
>> the concrete block wall, and since it's below grade on the outside and
>> then travels vertically up on the inside wall (to get to a junction
>> box), I had to put two 45 degree elbows into the hollowed out section
>> and that makes the hole more than the original drilled out 1" hole.
>> Now I want to fill it back up with something. I don't want to use
>> those expansion foam I would like to back fill with concrete.
>> However, the cavity inside the 8" thick concrete block wall is bigger
>> than the hole. I don't think I can "pour" concrete in.
>>
>> Is it ok to add more water to get the concrete "soupier" so I can pour
>> it in? or is there another way? It's not a big cavity I think just
>> about the size of a milk carton.
>
> The fill isn't going to be structural, right? So even though it's poor
> practice to soup-ify concrete, in this case it should be OK; you just
> need to get some stuff in there, not develop any strength.
>
> At least that's the way this non-concrete expert sees it.
>
>
I'd use foam and concrete- foam to make a plug in the cavity in the
block, and then the stiff pack-it-in-by-hand concrete patch mix to plug
the holes in both faces. A lot less messy, and a whole lot less weight
to lug around. The problem is, the cavity you can see probably leads to
the same cavity in the row of block below it, unless you made the hole
in the bottom row. If you don't want to mess with foam, another trick is
to wad up some window screen or other similar material, and stuff it in
as best you can. It doesn't matter if there are some voids inside the
wall- they were there to begin with. You just need something to take up
space, that the concrete can lock into place around, but not flow past.
Main objective is to get the patch on both faces to bind well to the
surrounding concrete, so you don't get water leaks. You want it to be
pretty on the inside wall, and extra solid and leakproof on the outside.
Don't forget to heavily wirebrush the outside, so the patch has fresh
concrete edge to bind to, and after the concrete sets, lots of the black
stuff at the transition with the pipe. The black stuff should completely
hide the patch mix on the outside, including on the bottom of the pipe,
and extend down the pipe a couple of inches. Penetrations in the
envelope like this are a common leak point in heavy rains or the spring
thaw.

--
aem sends...

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:36:12 GMT, aemeijers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 2/27/2009 11:48 PM MiamiCuse spake thus:
>>
>>> In order to pass a 3/4" PVC electrical conduit from inside of the
>>> house to outside of the house below grade, I had to chip out part of
>>> the concrete block wall, and since it's below grade on the outside and
>>> then travels vertically up on the inside wall (to get to a junction
>>> box), I had to put two 45 degree elbows into the hollowed out section
>>> and that makes the hole more than the original drilled out 1" hole.
>>> Now I want to fill it back up with something. I don't want to use
>>> those expansion foam I would like to back fill with concrete.
>>> However, the cavity inside the 8" thick concrete block wall is bigger
>>> than the hole. I don't think I can "pour" concrete in.
>>>
>>> Is it ok to add more water to get the concrete "soupier" so I can pour
>>> it in? or is there another way? It's not a big cavity I think just
>>> about the size of a milk carton.
>>
>> The fill isn't going to be structural, right? So even though it's poor
>> practice to soup-ify concrete, in this case it should be OK; you just
>> need to get some stuff in there, not develop any strength.
>>
>> At least that's the way this non-concrete expert sees it.
>>
>>
>I'd use foam and concrete- foam to make a plug in the cavity in the
>block, and then the stiff pack-it-in-by-hand concrete patch mix to plug
>the holes in both faces. A lot less messy, and a whole lot less weight
>to lug around. The problem is, the cavity you can see probably leads to
> the same cavity in the row of block below it, unless you made the hole
>in the bottom row. If you don't want to mess with foam, another trick is
>to wad up some window screen or other similar material, and stuff it in
>as best you can. It doesn't matter if there are some voids inside the
>wall- they were there to begin with. You just need something to take up
>space, that the concrete can lock into place around, but not flow past.
> Main objective is to get the patch on both faces to bind well to the
>surrounding concrete, so you don't get water leaks. You want it to be
>pretty on the inside wall, and extra solid and leakproof on the outside.
>Don't forget to heavily wirebrush the outside, so the patch has fresh
>concrete edge to bind to, and after the concrete sets, lots of the black
>stuff at the transition with the pipe. The black stuff should completely
>hide the patch mix on the outside, including on the bottom of the pipe,
>and extend down the pipe a couple of inches. Penetrations in the
>envelope like this are a common leak point in heavy rains or the spring
>thaw.

Foam is NOT waterproof. This is below grade. DO NOT use the foam.

I'd drill another hole at the very top of that block on the INSIDE of
the house. They sell a cement patcher that comes in milk carton types
of containers at most hardware stores. It's intended to expand
slightly, dry in a short time, and can be used under water. It's
called hydraulic cement.

Make a thin mix of this stuff, stick a long funnel in the hole (like
the ones made to fill transmissions on a car). Stick funnel in hole,
and fill the block. Finish by filling the second hole.

LM

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:36:12 GMT, aemeijers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>> On 2/27/2009 11:48 PM MiamiCuse spake thus:
>>>
>>>> In order to pass a 3/4" PVC electrical conduit from inside of the
>>>> house to outside of the house below grade, I had to chip out part of
>>>> the concrete block wall, and since it's below grade on the outside and
>>>> then travels vertically up on the inside wall (to get to a junction
>>>> box), I had to put two 45 degree elbows into the hollowed out section
>>>> and that makes the hole more than the original drilled out 1" hole.
>>>> Now I want to fill it back up with something. I don't want to use
>>>> those expansion foam I would like to back fill with concrete.
>>>> However, the cavity inside the 8" thick concrete block wall is bigger
>>>> than the hole. I don't think I can "pour" concrete in.
>>>>
>>>> Is it ok to add more water to get the concrete "soupier" so I can pour
>>>> it in? or is there another way? It's not a big cavity I think just
>>>> about the size of a milk carton.
>>> The fill isn't going to be structural, right? So even though it's poor
>>> practice to soup-ify concrete, in this case it should be OK; you just
>>> need to get some stuff in there, not develop any strength.
>>>
>>> At least that's the way this non-concrete expert sees it.
>>>
>>>
>> I'd use foam and concrete- foam to make a plug in the cavity in the
>> block, and then the stiff pack-it-in-by-hand concrete patch mix to plug
>> the holes in both faces. A lot less messy, and a whole lot less weight
>> to lug around. The problem is, the cavity you can see probably leads to
>> the same cavity in the row of block below it, unless you made the hole
>> in the bottom row. If you don't want to mess with foam, another trick is
>> to wad up some window screen or other similar material, and stuff it in
>> as best you can. It doesn't matter if there are some voids inside the
>> wall- they were there to begin with. You just need something to take up
>> space, that the concrete can lock into place around, but not flow past.
>> Main objective is to get the patch on both faces to bind well to the
>> surrounding concrete, so you don't get water leaks. You want it to be
>> pretty on the inside wall, and extra solid and leakproof on the outside.
>> Don't forget to heavily wirebrush the outside, so the patch has fresh
>> concrete edge to bind to, and after the concrete sets, lots of the black
>> stuff at the transition with the pipe. The black stuff should completely
>> hide the patch mix on the outside, including on the bottom of the pipe,
>> and extend down the pipe a couple of inches. Penetrations in the
>> envelope like this are a common leak point in heavy rains or the spring
>> thaw.
>
> Foam is NOT waterproof. This is below grade. DO NOT use the foam.
>
> I'd drill another hole at the very top of that block on the INSIDE of
> the house. They sell a cement patcher that comes in milk carton types
> of containers at most hardware stores. It's intended to expand
> slightly, dry in a short time, and can be used under water. It's
> called hydraulic cement.
>
> Make a thin mix of this stuff, stick a long funnel in the hole (like
> the ones made to fill transmissions on a car). Stick funnel in hole,
> and fill the block. Finish by filling the second hole.
>
Read what I wrote more closely. I was not saying use the foam as a water
seal, just to plug the bottom of the cavity in the block long enough to
cram the patching mix in there without it all running down inside the
wall. Inside of a block wall is NOT water tight anyway. You are
depending on the waterproofing glop and maybe membrane, on the outside
of the wall, to keep the groundwater out of the wall and out of the
basement. The stuff you recommended would be the ticket for a poured
wall foundation, where you don't want any sponges in the middle. But in
a block wall, if the open block is open to the course below, it will all
just run down out of sight.

--
aem sends....

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:06:56 GMT, aemeijers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:36:12 GMT, aemeijers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>> On 2/27/2009 11:48 PM MiamiCuse spake thus:
>>>>
>>>>> In order to pass a 3/4" PVC electrical conduit from inside of the
>>>>> house to outside of the house below grade, I had to chip out part of
>>>>> the concrete block wall, and since it's below grade on the outside and
>>>>> then travels vertically up on the inside wall (to get to a junction
>>>>> box), I had to put two 45 degree elbows into the hollowed out section
>>>>> and that makes the hole more than the original drilled out 1" hole.
>>>>> Now I want to fill it back up with something. I don't want to use
>>>>> those expansion foam I would like to back fill with concrete.
>>>>> However, the cavity inside the 8" thick concrete block wall is bigger
>>>>> than the hole. I don't think I can "pour" concrete in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it ok to add more water to get the concrete "soupier" so I can pour
>>>>> it in? or is there another way? It's not a big cavity I think just
>>>>> about the size of a milk carton.
>>>> The fill isn't going to be structural, right? So even though it's poor
>>>> practice to soup-ify concrete, in this case it should be OK; you just
>>>> need to get some stuff in there, not develop any strength.
>>>>
>>>> At least that's the way this non-concrete expert sees it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'd use foam and concrete- foam to make a plug in the cavity in the
>>> block, and then the stiff pack-it-in-by-hand concrete patch mix to plug
>>> the holes in both faces. A lot less messy, and a whole lot less weight
>>> to lug around. The problem is, the cavity you can see probably leads to
>>> the same cavity in the row of block below it, unless you made the hole
>>> in the bottom row. If you don't want to mess with foam, another trick is
>>> to wad up some window screen or other similar material, and stuff it in
>>> as best you can. It doesn't matter if there are some voids inside the
>>> wall- they were there to begin with. You just need something to take up
>>> space, that the concrete can lock into place around, but not flow past.
>>> Main objective is to get the patch on both faces to bind well to the
>>> surrounding concrete, so you don't get water leaks. You want it to be
>>> pretty on the inside wall, and extra solid and leakproof on the outside.
>>> Don't forget to heavily wirebrush the outside, so the patch has fresh
>>> concrete edge to bind to, and after the concrete sets, lots of the black
>>> stuff at the transition with the pipe. The black stuff should completely
>>> hide the patch mix on the outside, including on the bottom of the pipe,
>>> and extend down the pipe a couple of inches. Penetrations in the
>>> envelope like this are a common leak point in heavy rains or the spring
>>> thaw.
>>
>> Foam is NOT waterproof. This is below grade. DO NOT use the foam.
>>
>> I'd drill another hole at the very top of that block on the INSIDE of
>> the house. They sell a cement patcher that comes in milk carton types
>> of containers at most hardware stores. It's intended to expand
>> slightly, dry in a short time, and can be used under water. It's
>> called hydraulic cement.
>>
>> Make a thin mix of this stuff, stick a long funnel in the hole (like
>> the ones made to fill transmissions on a car). Stick funnel in hole,
>> and fill the block. Finish by filling the second hole.
>>
>Read what I wrote more closely. I was not saying use the foam as a water
>seal, just to plug the bottom of the cavity in the block long enough to
>cram the patching mix in there without it all running down inside the
>wall. Inside of a block wall is NOT water tight anyway. You are
>depending on the waterproofing glop and maybe membrane, on the outside
>of the wall, to keep the groundwater out of the wall and out of the
>basement. The stuff you recommended would be the ticket for a poured
>wall foundation, where you don't want any sponges in the middle. But in
>a block wall, if the open block is open to the course below, it will all
>just run down out of sight.

Ok, I sort of see your point, but I'd opt toward silicone before foam.
But I dont know how long the silicone would adhere under the ground
with soil pressure against it. If he wants to leave the blocks open
inside the better method would be to make the outer hole at least 3/4
inch larger than the pipe, and pack it with mortar. After mortar
drys, apply waterproof sealer like they use on the outside of block
walls, which used to be tar unless they change that recently. Liquid
roofing tar would probably work.

LM