Darro wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone tell me why the current to a single-pole wall toggle switch
> that controls a ceiling track lighting assembly would suddenly go from
> normal strength (lights working properly) to just a trickle (lights
> not illuminating) even though no electrical work of any kind had been
> done in the suite recently and the breaker is at the "on" position?
>
> Thanks in advance for your replies,
> Darro
Hi,
Maybe the switch has gone bad. It can happen.

Tony Hwang <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Darro wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can anyone tell me why the current to a single-pole wall toggle
> > switch that controls a ceiling track lighting assembly would
> > suddenly go from normal strength (lights working properly) to just
> > a trickle (lights not illuminating) even though no electrical work
> > of any kind had been done in the suite recently and the breaker is
> > at the "on" position? Thanks in advance for your replies,
> > Darro
> Hi,
> Maybe the switch has gone bad. It can happen.

Bad connection or failed use of "back-stabbed" recepticals in one of many
preceeding daisy-chained outlets in the circuit.

On Sep 26, 1:03*pm, "EXT" <noem...@reply.in.this.group> wrote:
> Tony Hwang <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Darro wrote:
> > > Hi,
>
> > > Can anyone tell me why the current to a single-pole wall toggle
> > > switch that controls a ceiling track lighting assembly would
> > > suddenly go from normal strength (lights working properly) to just
> > > a trickle (lights not illuminating) even though no electrical work
> > > of any kind had been done in the suite recently and the breaker is
> > > at the "on" position? Thanks in advance for your replies,
> > > Darro
> > Hi,
> > Maybe the switch has gone bad. It can happen.
>
> Bad connection or failed use of "back-stabbed" receptacles in one of many
> preceding daisy-chained outlets in the circuit.

Not sure what is meant by 'just a trickle' (how was it measured?).
Domestic electrcity is not like water etc. it's either on or off.

The best test is using a regular light bulb, not a test meter which
can pick up stray induced voltages.
If electricity is leaving the circuit breaker, with it in the on
position, is it reaching the switch?

If it is and goes through the switch (again using the light bulb),
then there may be break or fault in the neutral or return path to the
circuit breaker panel. The neutral path and wiring does not (in North
American practice) go through the switch!

If not familiar with electricity get someone who is to trouble shoot
it. Agree it could very easily be bad connections, cheap components
such as switches, outlets or light fixture that have just got tired/
deteriorated.

Could be simple problem but on occasion time consuming to find. Takes
an hour, plus time coming to location to find a damaged 75 cent item.
Time finding problem, one hour. Time to fix problem five minutes.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:22:38 -0700 (PDT), stan
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sep 26, 1:03*pm, "EXT" <noem...@reply.in.this.group> wrote:
>> Tony Hwang <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> > Darro wrote:
>> > > Hi,
>>
>> > > Can anyone tell me why the current to a single-pole wall toggle
>> > > switch that controls a ceiling track lighting assembly would
>> > > suddenly go from normal strength (lights working properly) to just
>> > > a trickle (lights not illuminating) even though no electrical work
>> > > of any kind had been done in the suite recently and the breaker is
>> > > at the "on" position? Thanks in advance for your replies,
>> > > Darro
>> > Hi,
>> > Maybe the switch has gone bad. It can happen.
>>
>> Bad connection or failed use of "back-stabbed" receptacles in one of many
>> preceding daisy-chained outlets in the circuit.
>
>Not sure what is meant by 'just a trickle' (how was it measured?).
>Domestic electrcity is not like water etc. it's either on or off.
>
>The best test is using a regular light bulb, not a test meter which
>can pick up stray induced voltages.

As I understand it, that's a problem with digital meters and with
analog vacuum tube meters and FET VOMs (neither of which are likely to
be found anymore), all of which have impedances of 11.1Megohms/volt,
or thereabouts. But with a cheaper analog meter the impedance is
50,000 ohms per volt, a sufficient load that stray voltages are
dissipated by the meter and so they don't show up in the meter
reading.

The cheap needle meters sold at Home Depot and Radio Shack, and better
meters sold at yard sales are 50,000 ohms/volt and that's marked on
the white faceplate.

>If electricity is leaving the circuit breaker, with it in the on
>position, is it reaching the switch?
>
>If it is and goes through the switch (again using the light bulb),
>then there may be break or fault in the neutral or return path to the
>circuit breaker panel. The neutral path and wiring does not (in North
>American practice) go through the switch!
>
>If not familiar with electricity get someone who is to trouble shoot
>it. Agree it could very easily be bad connections, cheap components
>such as switches, outlets or light fixture that have just got tired/
>deteriorated.
>
>Could be simple problem but on occasion time consuming to find. Takes
>an hour, plus time coming to location to find a damaged 75 cent item.
>Time finding problem, one hour. Time to fix problem five minutes.

I agree with all this.

mm wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:22:38 -0700 (PDT), stan
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 26, 1:03 pm, "EXT" <noem...@reply.in.this.group> wrote:
>>> Tony Hwang <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>> Darro wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Can anyone tell me why the current to a single-pole wall toggle
>>>>> switch that controls a ceiling track lighting assembly would
>>>>> suddenly go from normal strength (lights working properly) to just
>>>>> a trickle (lights not illuminating) even though no electrical work
>>>>> of any kind had been done in the suite recently and the breaker is
>>>>> at the "on" position? Thanks in advance for your replies,
>>>>> Darro
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Maybe the switch has gone bad. It can happen.
>>> Bad connection or failed use of "back-stabbed" receptacles in one of many
>>> preceding daisy-chained outlets in the circuit.
>> Not sure what is meant by 'just a trickle' (how was it measured?).
>> Domestic electrcity is not like water etc. it's either on or off.
>>
>> The best test is using a regular light bulb, not a test meter which
>> can pick up stray induced voltages.
>
> As I understand it, that's a problem with digital meters and with
> analog vacuum tube meters and FET VOMs (neither of which are likely to
> be found anymore), all of which have impedances of 11.1Megohms/volt,
> or thereabouts. But with a cheaper analog meter the impedance is
> 50,000 ohms per volt, a sufficient load that stray voltages are
> dissipated by the meter and so they don't show up in the meter
> reading.
>
> The cheap needle meters sold at Home Depot and Radio Shack, and better
> meters sold at yard sales are 50,000 ohms/volt and that's marked on
> the white faceplate.
>
>> If electricity is leaving the circuit breaker, with it in the on
>> position, is it reaching the switch?
>>
>> If it is and goes through the switch (again using the light bulb),
>> then there may be break or fault in the neutral or return path to the
>> circuit breaker panel. The neutral path and wiring does not (in North
>> American practice) go through the switch!
>>
>> If not familiar with electricity get someone who is to trouble shoot
>> it. Agree it could very easily be bad connections, cheap components
>> such as switches, outlets or light fixture that have just got tired/
>> deteriorated.
>>
>> Could be simple problem but on occasion time consuming to find. Takes
>> an hour, plus time coming to location to find a damaged 75 cent item.
>> Time finding problem, one hour. Time to fix problem five minutes.
>
> I agree with all this.
Hi,
50K Ohm/V DC analog meter is damn good at their time!
If it were on AC scale I don't recall I ever saw one.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
> "Tony Hwang" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:yjyvm.202709$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> 50K Ohm/V DC analog meter is damn good at their time!
>> If it were on AC scale I don't recall I ever saw one.
>
> You seldom see a 50K/V DC meter. Most were 20K/V DC and 5 K/V AC. Maybe
> the other fellow added an extra 0. Some were around 1 K/V DC that were
> mostly for electrical work and not electronic work.
> Those would probably be even beter for use by most home owners.
>
>
Yup,
I am electronics back ground from vacuum tubes to SMT, nano tech.
Still have old Simpson 260. Fluke, Triplett 650 VTVM for my RF work.
Variac, old analog scope Tek, tube tester, frequency counter,etc.
I use them all the time. Still go on the air chatting in Morse code.
I am an old fart, LOL! Now most work I do for fun is fixing vintage
guitar amps for my son and his music buddies. I wish I could play
electric guitar or bass. I am a life time low brass guy. Still play in
a local concert band.

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:50:56 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Tony Hwang" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:yjyvm.202709$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> 50K Ohm/V DC analog meter is damn good at their time!
>> If it were on AC scale I don't recall I ever saw one.
>
>You seldom see a 50K/V DC meter. Most were 20K/V DC and 5 K/V AC. Maybe

Maybe that was it. Maybe I just saw 50,000 in some later year. It's
hard to remember. Of course I have almost everything I've ever owned,
mostly in the basement, so I'll try to remember to check and get back
to you guys.

And yes, there was a seperate value for AC, but somehow that never
came up in conversation, and I forgot. Thanks.

>the other fellow added an extra 0.

It's something I read once or more times, or someone told me once or
more. No one was trying to make money on me.

> Some were around 1 K/V DC that were
>mostly for electrical work and not electronic work.
>Those would probably be even beter for use by most home owners.

They still sell cheap needle meters at HD and RS, probably just one
model at each, (and probably expensive ones too somewhere.)

http://www.imarketcity.com/poanmuwibach.html Six dollars.
A slim analog you can count on. Wrapped test leads, 6
function,14 ranges and battery tester.

Specification:
* DCV: 10 - 25 - 50 - 500V
* ACV: 50 - 250 - 500V
* DCA: 25mA - 250 mA
* Battery: 1.5 / 9V Check
* R: x10 - x1k
* Battery: 1.5V AA
* Accuracy: +/- 5% F.S.
* Size: (inches) 2.5x3.9x1.3
* Weight: (Lbs) 0.28

Advantage:
* Mirrored scale reduces errors to parallax
* 14 versatile ranges with competitive price
* Ideal for shop, home, boat ,car, office and school
===>* 2K Ohm / V DC/AC sensitivity
* Recessed input terminals for safe use
* Fuse & Diode protection

Package Content: Test leads included
Warranty : 1 years

*** Click to go back to Analog Meter Section to see more ***

*** Click to go back to Multi-meter Section to see more ***

DG668Regular price: $6.00 Sale price: $6.00, 3/$16.50
but it doesn't say how much shipping is.

If the Shipping & Handling charge appears as $5.00 or lower, It is not
valid - Please continue the order and i-Market will contact you to
update the Shipping & Handling charge before the order is processed.

I hate this crap, and many vendors tell you the shipping right
upfront.

That Google Products someone here showed me is pretty cool.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...&ci_sku=357690
20 dollars.

These are new designs, they didn't have 10 or 20 years ago. I wonder
who they make them for. Who uses most cheap analog meters. Perhaps,
non-Amerians?

Tony Hwang wrote:
> Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> "Tony Hwang" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:yjyvm.202709$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> 50K Ohm/V DC analog meter is damn good at their time!
>>> If it were on AC scale I don't recall I ever saw one.
>>
>> You seldom see a 50K/V DC meter. Most were 20K/V DC and 5 K/V AC.
>> Maybe the other fellow added an extra 0. Some were around 1 K/V DC
>> that were mostly for electrical work and not electronic work.
>> Those would probably be even beter for use by most home owners.
>>
>>
> Yup,
> I am electronics back ground from vacuum tubes to SMT, nano tech.
> Still have old Simpson 260. Fluke, Triplett 650 VTVM for my RF work.
> Variac, old analog scope Tek, tube tester, frequency counter,etc.
> I use them all the time. Still go on the air chatting in Morse code.
> I am an old fart, LOL! Now most work I do for fun is fixing vintage
> guitar amps for my son and his music buddies. I wish I could play
> electric guitar or bass. I am a life time low brass guy. Still play in
> a local concert band.

Do you have a high voltage probe to attach to your 260 for
measuring CRT voltages? I think I have one some where. One
day I'll inventory all the tools I have and probably find
things that I thought were long lost.

TDD

On Sep 26, 11:22*am, stan <tsanf...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 1:03*pm, "EXT" <noem...@reply.in.this.group> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Tony Hwang <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > Darro wrote:
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > Can anyone tell me why the current to a single-pole wall toggle
> > > > switch that controls a ceiling track lighting assembly would
> > > > suddenly go from normal strength (lights working properly) to just
> > > > a trickle (lights not illuminating) even though no electrical work
> > > > of any kind had been done in the suite recently and the breaker is
> > > > at the "on" position? Thanks in advance for your replies,
> > > > Darro
> > > Hi,
> > > Maybe the switch has gone bad. It can happen.
>
> > Bad connection or failed use of "back-stabbed" receptacles in one of many
> > preceding daisy-chained outlets in the circuit.
>
> Not sure what is meant by 'just a trickle' (how was it measured?).
> Domestic electrcity is not like water etc. it's either on or off.
>
> The best test is using a regular light bulb, not a test meter which
> can pick up stray induced voltages.
> If electricity is leaving the circuit breaker, with it in the on
> position, is it reaching the switch?
>
> If it is and goes through the switch (again using the light bulb),
> then there may be break or fault in the neutral or return path to the
> circuit breaker panel. The neutral path and wiring does not (in North
> American practice) go through the switch!
>
> If not familiar with electricity get someone who is to trouble shoot
> it. Agree it could very easily be bad connections, cheap components
> such as switches, outlets or light fixture that have just got tired/
> deteriorated.
>
> Could be simple problem but on occasion time consuming to find. Takes
> an hour, plus time coming to location to find a damaged 75 cent item.
> Time finding problem, one hour. Time to fix problem five minutes.

I am going thru this same situation. I have 2 outdoor lamp posts wired
in series
that went dead. My cheap little 2-wire test lamp will light up at
either post,
but when i wire up a working lamp, it does not. I have concluded i
have an
underground short and the wire must be replaced. So whats the
consensus
on that? i'd love to know before i start trenching...

mm wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:50:56 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> "Tony Hwang" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:yjyvm.202709$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> 50K Ohm/V DC analog meter is damn good at their time!
>>> If it were on AC scale I don't recall I ever saw one.
>> You seldom see a 50K/V DC meter. Most were 20K/V DC and 5 K/V AC. Maybe
>
> Maybe that was it. Maybe I just saw 50,000 in some later year. It's
> hard to remember. Of course I have almost everything I've ever owned,
> mostly in the basement, so I'll try to remember to check and get back
> to you guys.
>
> And yes, there was a seperate value for AC, but somehow that never
> came up in conversation, and I forgot. Thanks.
>
>> the other fellow added an extra 0.
>
> It's something I read once or more times, or someone told me once or
> more. No one was trying to make money on me.
>
>> Some were around 1 K/V DC that were
>> mostly for electrical work and not electronic work.
>> Those would probably be even beter for use by most home owners.
>
> They still sell cheap needle meters at HD and RS, probably just one
> model at each, (and probably expensive ones too somewhere.)
>

I have a RS analog about 30 years old that functions about as well as a
Simpson 260. I can't remember whether I built it from a kit. It's
50kohm/25kohm DC and 10kohm/5kohm AC.

>
> These are new designs, they didn't have 10 or 20 years ago. I wonder
> who they make them for. Who uses most cheap analog meters. Perhaps,
> non-Amerians?

Have you ever forgotten to turn off a DMM? It doesn't matter with a VOM
(unless you drop it).

If you normally use a DMM for resistance, you can remove the batteries
from a VOM. It will always be ready and there will be no danger of
leaky batteries.

You leave a VOM in place to monitor a circuit indefinitely. The wrong
needle position can be easier to spot than the wrong digits.

A VOM can provide a second opinion on a DMM reading, such as stray AC.