"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:8000b39e-4a7d-47a6-bb10-
(E-Mail Removed):


> The braces should also be let slightly into the rails.

Cutting those inset joints looks a bit fiddly for a carpentry novice like
me. I bought some 'timber joining plates' (with spickes sticking out of one
side, for hammering into the timber, accross a join. Probably not as good
as letting inti the rails as you suggested.
>
> How wide are these garage doors?

Each door is 4ft wide, and 7ft tall.

> Ledged and braced may tend to drop/lack rigidity - framed ledges and
> braced is much better, although quite a bit more work.

More weight, too. I was hoping the thickness of the T&G boards will obviate
the need for jambs.

Al

"Cash" <.............\\@...............//.com> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> Give the frame a chance and give it five coats of good quality paint
> (rather than 'tinted preservative) [1] - and also keep the frame about
> 20mm up off the floor to prevent the end grain (probably untreated
> anyway) from 'sucking up' rain water off the floor.

I did think of that (raising it off the floor). I probably should have
painted the frame on all faces before fixing to the wall too, but I didn't.
>
> [1] Prepare the timber properly and give it the following:
>
> 1 - Coat of aluminium base primer (or similar)
> 2 - Coats of oil based undercoat
> 2 - coats of oil based gloss

I was thinking of leaving the door and frame unpainted for the whole of
this summer, and then painting it all, in September, after it has become
well dried out and seasoned. Would you condone that idea? It's West-facing,
by the way.

Al

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:08:21 +0000, Al 1953 wrote:
> Now I understand bracing better, I'm thinking maybe have the braces
> parallel, like this:
>
> http://shedbuilder.info/How-To-Build-A-Shed-Door.html
>
> No jambs/verticals in that design either.

Hmm, aren't those diagonal braces the wrong way round? Shouldn't they be
flipped so that they transfer load along the brace's length to the hinge
side of the door?

Agree with the 'riffle' though (is that a genuine term?) - it'll reduce
the tendency for the diagonal brace to try and slide against the
horizontals.

Regarding vertical braces, I'm not sure they do add much to the strength.
They'll reduce the tendency to warp or for the door to twist, but you can
probably do without them if you want given that you've got an inch of
material already.

As for hinges, hard to tell how big is "big enough", although I think I'd
use three per door. Like you say, mountings are more important. I think
when I come to rebuild my garage doors I'll put metal plates on the
reverse side of the doors and bolt the hinges right through the doors and
the plates behind (ditto with the jambs).

cheers

Jules

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:04:37 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

>> http://shedbuilder.info/How-To-Build-A-Shed-Door.html
>>
>> No jambs/verticals in that design either.

But it's a small, light, shed door.

> Hmm, aren't those diagonal braces the wrong way round? Shouldn't they be
> flipped so that they transfer load along the brace's length to the hinge
> side of the door?

I thought that as well, or fit the hinges to left as we see it not
the right.


--
Cheers
Dave.

Jules Richardson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:hp0dd5$1n6$(E-Mail Removed):

> Hmm, aren't those diagonal braces the wrong way round?

Yes! I didn't notice that...

> Regarding vertical braces, I'm not sure they do add much to the
> strength. They'll reduce the tendency to warp or for the door to
> twist, but you can probably do without them if you want given that
> you've got an inch of material already.

Glad to hear someone support this notion. If the finished door seems too
twisty or flimsy, I can add vertical jambs

> As for hinges, hard to tell how big is "big enough", although I think
> I'd use three per door. Like you say, mountings are more important. I
> think when I come to rebuild my garage doors I'll put metal plates on
> the reverse side of the doors and bolt the hinges right through the
> doors and the plates behind (ditto with the jambs).

Luckily, I had a real life pair of wooden garage doors (on a gargae I
have access to) to look at for guidance. They are obviously quite old,
maybe 20 years, and are still working fine, and still fit well. They have
two hinges per door, but they are hefty items, with square holes to take
coach bolts.

Two hinges per door will hopefully be adequate, because I'm now planning
on only two horizontals per door, with one diagonal brace per door (after
reading some of the comments here). Each hinge will be bolted through a
horizontal, of course.

Here's what I bought (though I got mine from Jewsons at a lower price):
http://tinyurl.com/yfakzzl

One thing that I'm pondering about is the "axle housings" for want of a
better term. They screw onto the outside face of the door frame, using 6
crews. That is obviously the Achilles heel, security-wise, unless the
screws are made unscrewable somehow, after they are in place. To achieve
this, I'm thinking filling the slots with epoxy or even butchering the
slots with a drill to render the slots useless. Anyone got other methods
to share?

Al

>> The weak point rot-wise will probably be the grooves between the
>> boards on the lower part of the doors. Water finds its way into the
>> t&g joints where it can't easily evaporate.
>> There is *something* to be said for coating all the components in wood
>> hardener before assembly, including the individual tongues and
>> grooves, although the colour would need to be established beforehand.
>> It effectively applies a thin film of hard plastic.
>
> I'm not familiar with the stuff. Is it significantly better bet than wood
> primer for this purpose?
>
It's designed to soak into old, porous timber and effectively convert
the fibres to plastic. On new wood it's more likely to sit on the
surface, but my limited tests suggest it beats the hell out of anything
else as a sealer. I've always painted over it so I can't comment on how
it would respond to UV exposure in a transparent finish.

> One thing that I'm pondering about ...

If you're really bothered about that, once everything is mounted up
and the doors fit etc, drill an extra hole through the hinge-pin plate
and put a coach bolt right through to the inside of the building.

It's a bit overkill for ledged and braced timber doors anyway (unless
they're massively constructed), as they don't have the structure to
hold back even a moderately serious go at a forced entry.

"Dave Liquorice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) ll.co.uk:

> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:32:36 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:
>
>> Glad to hear someone support this notion. If the finished door seems
>> too twisty or flimsy, I can add vertical jambs
>
> But without any real connection to the horizontals (there must be a
> real name for them, stiles?). On a normal door they would be tightly
> morticed together and the brace(s) notched in. The cladding is then
> just that decorative cladding, things do change with 3/4" T&G
> "cladding" but I don't know in what way.
>
>> One thing that I'm pondering about is the "axle housings" for want of
>> a better term.
>
> Hinge pins.
>
>> They screw onto the outside face of the door frame, using 6 crews.
>
> Why faff about undoing the crews when you can just lift the door off,
> maybe?

I was thinking of having the hinge pins pointing in opposite directions,
but actually my door closes into the fram and the top frame member is
steel, so I'll keep them the same way. Yes, the lowlife could attack with
grinder, but that would make noise which would be heard.

But yes, I am probably verging on overkill as there are other security
measures in place around the property.

Al

"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:5125136b-7182-4d97-b233-
(E-Mail Removed):

>
>> One thing that I'm pondering about ...
>
> If you're really bothered about that, once everything is mounted up
> and the doors fit etc, drill an extra hole through the hinge-pin plate
> and put a coach bolt right through to the inside of the building.
>
> It's a bit overkill for ledged and braced timber doors anyway (unless
> they're massively constructed), as they don't have the structure to
> hold back even a moderately serious go at a forced entry.

Good comments thanks. I like your bolt idea though so I'll probably do
that..

Al

"Dave Liquorice" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) ll.co.uk:

> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:35:01 +0000 (UTC), Al 1953 wrote:
>
>> I purchased tongue & grooved redwood floorboarding (22mm x 135mm) to
>> be exact.
>
> Yipes, I hope you've thought about the weight and the hinges to
> support them...
>
>> For the bracing' I'm thinking three equally-spaced horizontals with
>> diagonals in-between. I am planning to have no vertical bracing at
>> the edges, as the tongu+grooved timber is nearly an inch thick, and
>> seems very rigid,
>
> My gut feeling is that won't work, or not work as well as diagonal
> across the corners of a box. I can't pin down why I feel it won't
> work, other than "no triangle". I could be wrong, the fact that you
> have 3/4" boards might be enough but they will slide past each other.
>
>> I can always add vertcals later.
>
> The horizontals really need to be mortised into the verticals and
> possibly the diagonal braces jointed in as well.
>
>> thinking I should glue the grooves before tapping in the tongues, I
>> assum this is correct?
>
> I wouldn't the boards will want move and if glued they can't. I
> wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4" variation across the width of each
> of those boards between the "wet" and "dry" states of the timber.
>
>> To fix the bracing, will zink plated wood screws will do,
>
> If you can get good quality zinc plated yes but screws vary immensely
> in the quality of the plating and in the steel. Brass or stainless
> might be a better choice. I don't use anything but brass, stainless
> or hot dipped clouts outside up here. Steel screws or nails just
> doen't last.


What about galvanised nails, for nailing the boards (galvanised ovals if
there is such a thing)?

Al