I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are ungrounded.
And I say that I suspect this because while they do have the typical
"3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with the appliances
attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not connected to
anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many fireworks
resulted, but no big loss. Unfortunately the other was my friend's $300
PA amp which not only shocked the crap out of me, but seems to have
killed the amp as well. Before I take all of this up with my landlord,
I am hoping I can prove the wiring is faulty (possibly with a
multi-meter?). Can someone with some electrical experience please offer
their suggestions? Thanks.

In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
SavageHenry <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are ungrounded.
>And I say that I suspect this because while they do have the typical
>"3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with the appliances
>attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not connected to
>anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many fireworks
>resulted, but no big loss. Unfortunately the other was my friend's $300
>PA amp which not only shocked the crap out of me, but seems to have
>killed the amp as well. Before I take all of this up with my landlord,
>I am hoping I can prove the wiring is faulty (possibly with a
>multi-meter?). Can someone with some electrical experience please offer
>their suggestions? Thanks.

Do you have a known good ground? If your plumbing is copper, you can
usually use the plumbing as a ground for these tests.

Make up a test light. A light socket with 2-3 foot lengths of #14 wire
is good. Use a 100 watt bulb. If the KNOWN good ground is not handy
to the outlets, extend a length of #14 from a ground to the outlet in
question.

Make these tests on a known good outlet so you can verify that it is
good and your ground is good. Then the suspect outlets.

The bulb should light fully for the following connections:

Between the two flat blades.
between the smaller flat blade and the u-ground (the #3 hole).
between the smaller flat blade and your known ground.

Anything less than fully lighted indicates a problem.

The bulb should not light at all for the following connections:

Between the wider flat blade and the u-ground.
Between the wider flat blade and your known ground.
Between the u-ground and your known ground.

Any light at all indicates a problem.

Good hunting.

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, Zero & Casey, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Or just get one of these at HD or Lowes

http://www.awsperry.com/sperry/catalog?item=ca-300a

They just plug in and the lights tell the story. Easy for landlord to
understand. ABout $10 and a bit sfaer than a test light.


Rich Greenberg wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
> SavageHenry <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are ungrounded.
> >And I say that I suspect this because while they do have the typical
> >"3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with the appliances
> >attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not connected to
> >anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many fireworks
> >resulted, but no big loss. Unfortunately the other was my friend's $300
> >PA amp which not only shocked the crap out of me, but seems to have
> >killed the amp as well. Before I take all of this up with my landlord,
> >I am hoping I can prove the wiring is faulty (possibly with a
> >multi-meter?). Can someone with some electrical experience please offer
> >their suggestions? Thanks.
>
> Do you have a known good ground? If your plumbing is copper, you can
> usually use the plumbing as a ground for these tests.
>
> Make up a test light. A light socket with 2-3 foot lengths of #14 wire
> is good. Use a 100 watt bulb. If the KNOWN good ground is not handy
> to the outlets, extend a length of #14 from a ground to the outlet in
> question.
>
> Make these tests on a known good outlet so you can verify that it is
> good and your ground is good. Then the suspect outlets.
>
> The bulb should light fully for the following connections:
>
> Between the two flat blades.
> between the smaller flat blade and the u-ground (the #3 hole).
> between the smaller flat blade and your known ground.
>
> Anything less than fully lighted indicates a problem.
>
> The bulb should not light at all for the following connections:
>
> Between the wider flat blade and the u-ground.
> Between the wider flat blade and your known ground.
> Between the u-ground and your known ground.
>
> Any light at all indicates a problem.
>
> Good hunting.
>
> --
> Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
> Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
> Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, Zero & Casey, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
> Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

I would suggest hiring a professional to verify your suspicions. If indeed
your outlets are ungrounded and caused this damage and you expect to get
reimbursed by your landlord, a professional's word would be harder to refute



"SavageHenry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...


>I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are ungrounded.
> And I say that I suspect this because while they do have the typical
> "3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with the appliances
> attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not connected to
> anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many fireworks
> resulted, but no big loss. Unfortunately the other was my friend's $300
> PA amp which not only shocked the crap out of me, but seems to have
> killed the amp as well. Before I take all of this up with my landlord,
> I am hoping I can prove the wiring is faulty (possibly with a
> multi-meter?). Can someone with some electrical experience please offer
> their suggestions? Thanks.
>

Howard wrote:
> Or just get one of these at HD or Lowes
>
> http://www.awsperry.com/sperry/catalog?item=ca-300a
>
> They just plug in and the lights tell the story. Easy for landlord to
> understand. ABout $10 and a bit sfaer than a test light.
>
>
> Rich Greenberg wrote:
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed) .com>,
> > SavageHenry <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are ungrounded.
> > >And I say that I suspect this because while they do have the typical
> > >"3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with the appliances
> > >attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not connected to
> > >anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many fireworks
> > >resulted, but no big loss. Unfortunately the other was my friend's $300
> > >PA amp which not only shocked the crap out of me, but seems to have
> > >killed the amp as well. Before I take all of this up with my landlord,
> > >I am hoping I can prove the wiring is faulty (possibly with a
> > >multi-meter?). Can someone with some electrical experience please offer
> > >their suggestions? Thanks.
> >
> > Do you have a known good ground? If your plumbing is copper, you can
> > usually use the plumbing as a ground for these tests.
> >
> > Make up a test light. A light socket with 2-3 foot lengths of #14 wire
> > is good. Use a 100 watt bulb. If the KNOWN good ground is not handy
> > to the outlets, extend a length of #14 from a ground to the outlet in
> > question.
> >
> > Make these tests on a known good outlet so you can verify that it is
> > good and your ground is good. Then the suspect outlets.
> >
> > The bulb should light fully for the following connections:
> >
> > Between the two flat blades.
> > between the smaller flat blade and the u-ground (the #3 hole).
> > between the smaller flat blade and your known ground.
> >
> > Anything less than fully lighted indicates a problem.
> >
> > The bulb should not light at all for the following connections:
> >
> > Between the wider flat blade and the u-ground.
> > Between the wider flat blade and your known ground.
> > Between the u-ground and your known ground.
> >
> > Any light at all indicates a problem.
> >
> > Good hunting.

I agree with both Rich and Howard but there is a but. Even if the
outlet is ungrounded, that wouldn't cause otherwise properly working
items to spontanteously combust, so to speak.

A "hot ground" might cause some problems. It could short to ground and
cause massive overheating. But it would also likely pop a breaker. It
might also shock YOU. So check to make sure you don't have seriously
oversized breakers, nickels in the fuse box, etc. (but which is very
unlikely).

Reversing the polarity might also cause the problem, but that to is
unlikely. It is common enough that most appliances can handle it.

If you have a rats nest of extension cords or an undersized lead cord,
that could also cause a problem.

Another possibility is that the voltage is wrong. Plug in a regular
incandecent light and see if it looks right. If it is REALY bright,
you might have 220 there. That would cause a problem. Just out of
curiosity, what does the outlet look like? One of the flat holes
doesn't have a let off of it to make it look like a sideways"T" does
it? Sort of:


| |
| |
| |--------
| |
| |
__
|__|

Sorry for the image, but I hope you get the point.

Remember, it might just be dumb luck, too. Sometimes a coincidence is
just a coincidence.

Good luck. More infor would be useful.

Pat.





> >
> > --
> > Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
> > Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
> > Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, Zero & Casey, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
> > Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

On 30 Aug 2006 16:34:19 -0700, "SavageHenry" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are ungrounded.
>And I say that I suspect this because while they do have the typical
>"3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with the appliances
>attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not connected to
>anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many fireworks
>resulted,

I don't see why the lack of a ground would cause problems with a
microwave. Maybe someone could tell me if and why I'm wrong.

Are you sure you didn't have something metal in the microwave? Even
metal decoration on a plate, or tin foil?

I don't think cheap microwave ovens are any different from more
expesnive ones, except possibly the expensive one is less likely to be
broken. My brother put the wrong metal shelf in one -- I guess
there's is some special alloy? -- and he blew a glass fuse in the
oven. My Amana model 2 didn't have a fuse. I don't know about
others.

>but no big loss. Unfortunately the other was my friend's $300
>PA amp which not only shocked the crap out of me,

This on the ohter hand does sound like it might be an ungrounded
outlet. That is, if there were a grounded outlet and it was a strong
shock representing 110 volts, it would have blown the fuse if the
outlet were grounded. Was there a 3-prong plug on the PA amp???

but seems to have
>killed the amp as well. Before I take all of this up with my landlord,
>I am hoping I can prove the wiring is faulty (possibly with a
>multi-meter?). Can someone with some electrical experience please offer
>their suggestions? Thanks.

On 30 Aug 2006 18:27:57 -0700, "Pat" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
>Another possibility is that the voltage is wrong. Plug in a regular
>incandecent light and see if it looks right. If it is REALY bright,
>you might have 220 there.

I haven't tried it but wouldn't 220 burn out 110 volt bulbs? More
below.

> That would cause a problem. Just out of
>curiosity, what does the outlet look like? One of the flat holes
>doesn't have a let off of it to make it look like a sideways"T" does
>it? Sort of:
>
>
> | |
> | |
> | |--------
> | |
> | |
> __
> |__|
>
>Sorry for the image, but I hope you get the point.

The image above does not represent 220. It means 110 on a 20 amp
circuit.

SavageHenry wrote:
> I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are
> ungrounded. And I say that I suspect this because while they do have
> the typical "3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with
> the appliances attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not
> connected to anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many
> fireworks resulted, but no big loss. Unfortunately the other was my
> friend's $300 PA amp which not only shocked the crap out of me, but
> seems to have killed the amp as well. Before I take all of this up
> with my landlord, I am hoping I can prove the wiring is faulty
> (possibly with a multi-meter?). Can someone with some electrical
> experience please offer their suggestions? Thanks.

There is only one way that could cause damage to anything: If it had 220V
on it. Has anything EVER been connected to it that worked?

Regardless of whether it's wired wrong or not; only 220 could c ause any
harm.

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:19:39 -0400, mm <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
>>I suspect that not one, but two outlets in my apartment are ungrounded.
>>And I say that I suspect this because while they do have the typical
>>"3-hole" outlet, both have caused serious problems with the appliances
>>attached to them (I suspect that hole number 3 is not connected to
>>anything). One of them was a cheap microwave and many fireworks
>>resulted,
>
>I don't see why the lack of a ground would cause problems with a
>microwave. Maybe someone could tell me if and why I'm wrong.
>
>Are you sure you didn't have something metal in the microwave? Even
>metal decoration on a plate, or tin foil?
>
>I don't think cheap microwave ovens are any different from more
>expesnive ones, except possibly the expensive one is less likely to be
>broken.

I meant the expensive one is less likely to be broken after it was run
with metal in it, although I had a little sparking in my cheap one
and it's still running.

>My brother put the wrong metal shelf in one -- I guess
>there's is some special alloy? -- and he blew a glass fuse in the
>oven. My Amana model 2 didn't have a fuse. I don't know about
>others.