With two days of SDSing, a couple of trips to the dump and a helluva
backache, this...

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/759/oldav.jpg

....has become this:

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3737/newem.jpg

Next job is to repoint the brickwork, although it looks like some of
the perps are so thin that they never had mortar between them.

Regarding plastering, what is the best way to get an edge around the
opening? I was expecting to be able to fit a plaster stop bead but it
seems that the brick corners were originally broken off the vertical
sides, so this would leave something of a raggy edge inside:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8198/edges.jpg

I guess I could try and remake the broken brick edges with something
like Tetrion (assuming the inside will ultimately be scrubbed and
white emulsioned) and then fit the plaster stop bead. Any other/better
options?

Also, what's the best finish for the arch edge? The steel lintel is
set back about 1/2" from the brick face:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3689/steelw.jpg

Could a piece of stop bead be bent to follow the curve? Would it look
better flush with the bottom edge of the steel or with the brickwork
so the steel is still visible?

Any ideas why the bricks were originally broken in that way? I
assumed there was some kind of wooden staff bead (is that what it's
called?) there like on the external corners but I don't see why the
original builders would go to that trouble for something that was
going to be covered by a contemporary fireplace.

Thanks for any advice.

In article <9e981867-cf5a-46f4-9c07-(E-Mail Removed)>,
mike <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
> With two days of SDSing, a couple of trips to the dump and a helluva
> backache, this...
>
> http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/759/oldav.jpg
>
> ...has become this:
>
> http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3737/newem.jpg

Did exactly the same myself.

> Next job is to repoint the brickwork, although it looks like some of
> the perps are so thin that they never had mortar between them.

Don't make the surface finish too good - it will give a better
key for the scratch coat plaster.

> Regarding plastering, what is the best way to get an edge around the
> opening? I was expecting to be able to fit a plaster stop bead but it
> seems that the brick corners were originally broken off the vertical
> sides, so this would leave something of a raggy edge inside:
>
> http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8198/edges.jpg
>
> I guess I could try and remake the broken brick edges with something
> like Tetrion (assuming the inside will ultimately be scrubbed and
> white emulsioned) and then fit the plaster stop bead. Any other/better
> options?

Given the corners are missing, you might as well use plaster beading
(not plasterboard beading) which has mesh wings set into the scratch
(under) coat plaster. Then you don't need to repair them (assuming
you're plastering into the fireplace opening).

Chimneys often have no damp proof course (because the heat from the
fire kept them dry). Check for any damp, and if there is any, you'll
need to use waterproof materials, such as stainless steel beading,
and sand/cement/waterproofer scratch coat. If it's all bone dry, you
can use galvanised beading and gypsom plaster scratch coat.

> Also, what's the best finish for the arch edge? The steel lintel is
> set back about 1/2" from the brick face:
>
> http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3689/steelw.jpg
>
> Could a piece of stop bead be bent to follow the curve? Would it look
> better flush with the bottom edge of the steel or with the brickwork
> so the steel is still visible?

I did this freehand using an external corner trowel. The steel band
lintel provides a nice surface to glide the trowel along, although
using external corner trowels is not particularly easy. (It's not
really a lintel, it's just to stop the brick arch dropping due to
any mortar dropping out in the heat. The brick arch is the support.)

> Any ideas why the bricks were originally broken in that way? I
> assumed there was some kind of wooden staff bead (is that what it's
> called?) there like on the external corners but I don't see why the
> original builders would go to that trouble for something that was
> going to be covered by a contemporary fireplace.

External corners were often bevelled because a sharp plaster corner
is very vulnerable to damage (beading is a relatively recent product).
However, it seems unlikely the plaster originally ran into the
fireplace - that was normally only done with much larger fireplaces.

What are you intending to do with the fireplace?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Jun 1, 9:15*pm, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
> In article <9e981867-cf5a-46f4-9c07-842b44bda...@k3g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
> * * * * mike <miken...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > With two days of SDSing, a couple of trips to the dump and a helluva
> > backache, this...
>
> >http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/759/oldav.jpg
>
> > ...has become this:
>
> >http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3737/newem.jpg
>
> Did exactly the same myself.
>
> > Next job is to repoint the brickwork, although it looks like some of
> > the perps are so thin that they never had mortar between them.
>
> Don't make the surface finish too good - it will give a better
> key for the scratch coat plaster.
>
> > Regarding plastering, what is the best way to get an edge around the
> > opening? *I was expecting to be able to fit a plaster stop bead but it
> > seems that the brick corners were originally broken off the vertical
> > sides, so this would leave something of a raggy edge inside:
>
> >http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8198/edges.jpg
>
> > I guess I could try and remake the broken brick edges with something
> > like Tetrion (assuming the inside will ultimately be scrubbed and
> > white emulsioned) and then fit the plaster stop bead. Any other/better
> > options?
>
> Given the corners are missing, you might as well use plaster beading
> (not plasterboard beading) which has mesh wings set into the scratch
> (under) coat plaster. Then you don't need to repair them (assuming
> you're plastering into the fireplace opening).
>
> Chimneys often have no damp proof course (because the heat from the
> fire kept them dry). Check for any damp, and if there is any, you'll
> need to use waterproof materials, such as stainless steel beading,
> and sand/cement/waterproofer scratch coat. If it's all bone dry, you
> can use galvanised beading and gypsom plaster scratch coat.
>
> > Also, what's the best finish for the arch edge? *The steel lintel is
> > set back about 1/2" from the brick face:
>
> >http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3689/steelw.jpg
>
> > Could a piece of stop bead be bent to follow the curve? *Would it look
> > better flush with the bottom edge of the steel or with the brickwork
> > so the steel is still visible?
>
> I did this freehand using an external corner trowel. The steel band
> lintel provides a nice surface to glide the trowel along, although
> using external corner trowels is not particularly easy. (It's not
> really a lintel, it's just to stop the brick arch dropping due to
> any mortar dropping out in the heat. The brick arch is the support.)
>
> > Any ideas why the bricks were originally broken in that way? *I
> > assumed there was some kind of wooden staff bead (is that what it's
> > called?) there like on the external corners but I don't see why the
> > original builders would go to that trouble for something that was
> > going to be covered by a contemporary fireplace.
>
> External corners were often bevelled because a sharp plaster corner
> is very vulnerable to damage (beading is a relatively recent product).
> However, it seems unlikely the plaster originally ran into the
> fireplace - that was normally only done with much larger fireplaces.
>
> What are you intending to do with the fireplace?
>
> --
> Andrew Gabriel
> [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Thanks for the reply, Andrew.

The plan is to install a woodburner. The semi-detached neighbours
reopened their mirror-image fireplace last year and the sweep told
them the chimney was sufficiently sound that it didn't need lining.
I'd like to think this was the case with ours but, having hacked the
plaster off (not much hacking involved) and seen the pointing, I find
this hard to believe. Does fitting a liner these days involve
scaffolding over the house rather than just using a roof ladder?

Regarding plastering into the opening, I was hoping not to --- just to
plaster up to the opening and leave the bricks exposed inside.

mike wrote:


> The plan is to install a woodburner. The semi-detached neighbours
> reopened their mirror-image fireplace last year and the sweep told
> them the chimney was sufficiently sound that it didn't need lining.
> I'd like to think this was the case with ours but, having hacked the
> plaster off (not much hacking involved) and seen the pointing, I find
> this hard to believe. Does fitting a liner these days involve
> scaffolding over the house rather than just using a roof ladder?


Not necessarily. Our guy did mine without - but that was a bungalow with
flat dormer access.



--
Tim Watts

On Jun 2, 2:56 pm, mike <miken...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 1, 9:15 pm, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <9e981867-cf5a-46f4-9c07-842b44bda...@k3g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
> > mike <miken...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > > With two days of SDSing, a couple of trips to the dump and a helluva
> > > backache, this...
>
> > >http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/759/oldav.jpg
>
> > > ...has become this:
>
> > >http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3737/newem.jpg
>
> > Did exactly the same myself.
>
> > > Next job is to repoint the brickwork, although it looks like some of
> > > the perps are so thin that they never had mortar between them.
>
> > Don't make the surface finish too good - it will give a better
> > key for the scratch coat plaster.
>
> > > Regarding plastering, what is the best way to get an edge around the
> > > opening? I was expecting to be able to fit a plaster stop bead but it
> > > seems that the brick corners were originally broken off the vertical
> > > sides, so this would leave something of a raggy edge inside:
>
> > >http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8198/edges.jpg
>
> > > I guess I could try and remake the broken brick edges with something
> > > like Tetrion (assuming the inside will ultimately be scrubbed and
> > > white emulsioned) and then fit the plaster stop bead. Any other/better
> > > options?
>
> > Given the corners are missing, you might as well use plaster beading
> > (not plasterboard beading) which has mesh wings set into the scratch
> > (under) coat plaster. Then you don't need to repair them (assuming
> > you're plastering into the fireplace opening).
>
> > Chimneys often have no damp proof course (because the heat from the
> > fire kept them dry). Check for any damp, and if there is any, you'll
> > need to use waterproof materials, such as stainless steel beading,
> > and sand/cement/waterproofer scratch coat. If it's all bone dry, you
> > can use galvanised beading and gypsom plaster scratch coat.
>
> > > Also, what's the best finish for the arch edge? The steel lintel is
> > > set back about 1/2" from the brick face:
>
> > >http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3689/steelw.jpg
>
> > > Could a piece of stop bead be bent to follow the curve? Would it look
> > > better flush with the bottom edge of the steel or with the brickwork
> > > so the steel is still visible?
>
> > I did this freehand using an external corner trowel. The steel band
> > lintel provides a nice surface to glide the trowel along, although
> > using external corner trowels is not particularly easy. (It's not
> > really a lintel, it's just to stop the brick arch dropping due to
> > any mortar dropping out in the heat. The brick arch is the support.)
>
> > > Any ideas why the bricks were originally broken in that way? I
> > > assumed there was some kind of wooden staff bead (is that what it's
> > > called?) there like on the external corners but I don't see why the
> > > original builders would go to that trouble for something that was
> > > going to be covered by a contemporary fireplace.
>
> > External corners were often bevelled because a sharp plaster corner
> > is very vulnerable to damage (beading is a relatively recent product).
> > However, it seems unlikely the plaster originally ran into the
> > fireplace - that was normally only done with much larger fireplaces.
>
> > What are you intending to do with the fireplace?
>
> > --
> > Andrew Gabriel
> > [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
>
> Thanks for the reply, Andrew.
>
> The plan is to install a woodburner. The semi-detached neighbours
> reopened their mirror-image fireplace last year and the sweep told
> them the chimney was sufficiently sound that it didn't need lining.
> I'd like to think this was the case with ours but, having hacked the
> plaster off (not much hacking involved) and seen the pointing, I find
> this hard to believe.

More worrying from your point of view is flue gas leakage (now or
future) into yours from next doors thru crap pointing/parging of their
flue - do they have a stove or open fire?....
I would line yours and also get vermiculite put down around the liner
to hopefully slow down any gas permeation from next door. Poured
concrete liners are prone to shortcut install. problems..Fit CO and
smoke detectors in rooms to the stack

>Does fitting a liner these days involve
> scaffolding over the house rather than just using a roof ladder?

1st of mine was done without either by a HETAS blokes skivvy....eek
2nd of mine had "cape canaveral" (12m scaffold tower)

Jim K
(cue dad's army)